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Koenji
03.02.21, 01:02 PM
Is this liturgically commendable? Or in terms of our music ministry, acceptable? ::)

lionel
03.02.22, 04:10 AM
totally solo? for me, that's a big resounding NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
naging concert na yun eh.

but i have no liturgical or biblical basis for this opinion.


pwede pa kung:

1) kung solo ang verses with entire choir singing the chorus, (like a resp.psalm) then pwede pa.

2) it's a 2nd communion song na pang-reflection.

3) kung walang choir at ikaw na ang inatasang kumanta na solo. fine. wala kang choice. eh




=============


the point is:
we should strive to include the congregation. and teach the congregation. we are "song leaders" not solo singers, or concert choruses.

we lead the people into prayer via music.

i find that solo singing tends to distract people from prayer. they go: "Wow, parang Regine V" or... "Ay, sintunado. mas magaling pa ako sa karaoke."




but that's just me

aRJedi
03.02.22, 07:10 AM
Pareho kami ng view ni Bro. Lionel. Kaka-distract talaga yun kasi yung isang mass na na-a-attend-an ko dito, ganun ang style. Buti sana kung simple lang yung pagkaka-kanta eh. Kaso talagang ginagawang pang-performance grade pa minsan.

nargalzius
03.02.22, 11:49 AM
Ako din parang hindi dapat solo.

But I really think it's matter of taste ng congregation, kse me iba me full band pa nga mga misa eh complete with drums, etc.

I really don't dig it but hey if that's what the congregation appreciates who am I to argue.

Meron iba pa worship pakulot-kulot pa nga eh, (marami sa mga protestant ata kse yung firend ko ganun) tas ok lang naman sa kanya.

So I wouldn't want to dictate what's appropriate or not since it's about what could "reach" the congregation.

lionel
03.02.23, 04:27 AM
I really don't dig it but hey if that's what the congregation appreciates who am I to argue.

Meron iba pa worship pakulot-kulot pa nga eh, (marami sa mga protestant ata kse yung firend ko ganun) tas ok lang naman sa kanya.


quite true.

the born again services i sometimes attend --- they have a music minister, with full band and 6 back up singers. (na medyo useless dahil mahiyain. weird)

anyway..... the thing is, it doesn't appear he's singing solo, because most EVERYONE is singing along with him. he ends up becoming a song leader rather than a performer.


bakit nga ba sa misa natin, di ganun?

my theory:
after centuries of Spanish friars , and later on vatican 1, well...... we become well-trained in being un-participative or in-expressive in the Mass. Vatican 2 tried changing it, but by then, wala na tayo.....

ewan.

2 centavos.

J O J I T
03.02.24, 12:27 PM
paano naman po yung pilgrim's theme na arrangement sa BP volume 2? ang igsi ng part ng choir. halos buong song solo. duet po ba ok din? like bawat sandali or i seek you for i thirst.

:)

lionel
03.02.24, 06:26 PM
paano naman po yung pilgrim's theme na arrangement sa BP volume 2? ang igsi ng part ng choir. halos buong song solo. duet po ba ok din? like bawat sandali or i seek you for i thirst.

:)





jojit,
re-arrange it as you see fit.
just because it was recorded like that doesn't mean you HAVE to sing it like that.


altho Pilgrim's theme really is better for reflection than in actual use in the mass......


but i have played it for a children's choir who sang it in unison all the way thru. o di ba? children pa yun. galing nila.


the arrangements on t he recordings are guides .... they're not imposed on you.


break out of the box!

J O J I T
03.02.27, 07:41 AM
belated happy bday sirl lionel.

paano naman po kung hindi kami marunong mag-arrange? i've asked some bp members nga kung meron silang choral arrangement ng pilgrim's theme eh. meron ang hangad kaya lang acapella. medyo mahirap po. and meron din solo parang backup lang yung iba. although mukhang pwede naman. sa mga bata naman po kasi ok lang na unison, cute pakinggan. pero sa matatandang choir, parang dry ang dating. :)

thanks

lionel
03.03.02, 01:18 AM
paano naman po kung hindi kami marunong mag-arrange?

sa mga bata naman po kasi ok lang na unison, cute pakinggan. pero sa matatandang choir, parang dry ang dating. :)




i disagree jojit.
sometimes unison is the best way to sing a song. especially if the melody is already complicated.

if you can't create a new 2nd voice, don't force yourself to learn a complicated piece.

use the simplest way: sometimes this is the most elegant solution.


---------

lalo na kung konti ang tao sa choir.
imbis na i-split mo pa into 4 voices, tapos ang hina ng volume output, make do with 2 voices: a melody (S, B) and a 2nd voice (A, T). or better yet, sing it unison.


di lang pambata ang unison,
pang i-sports pa.

J O J I T
03.03.03, 07:29 AM
sabi ko naman cute ah. :( pero agree ba kayo na mas maganda ang may voicing? ok lang po sana kahit complicated ang voicing, basta merong piyesa. anyways, meron nga palang song ang bukas palad na unison pero lahat ng boys kumakanta. yung po pala, pwede bang puro babae lang pakakantahin sa offertory i.e. paghahandog ng sarili? or puro lalaki i.e. panalangin sa pagiging bukas palad? thanks

lionel
03.03.04, 04:21 PM
jojit,
kahit ano pwede, basta sa tingin mo maganda ang labas. at makakatulong sa dasal.

be confident.

Koenji
03.03.04, 04:26 PM
. . . pero agree ba kayo na mas maganda ang may voicing? ok lang po sana kahit complicated ang voicing, basta merong piyesa. . .


HI Jojit :)

Sorry medyo nobela ito.

Sa 'kin lang naman, hindi ibig sabihin pagmay-voicing ang isang kanta at complicated ay maganda na, at pwede na nating kantahin sa Misa kahit na may piyesa. Isaalang-alang din natin ang tunay na adhikain ng ating ministry: To lead the congregation in singing especially 'yung mga responses na dapat ay para sa congregation lamang.

Kung masyadong complicated ang voicing ay baka matabunan na ang melody at malito na ang mga tao dahil hindi na nila alam kung ano ang basic tune ng kinakanta natin.Kapag nagyari 'yan, hindi na natin makukuha ang kanilang "active participation". Ganyan ka-unique ang ating Liturgical music compare sa ibang music genre, it was made to enhance active participation.

Para sa 'kin, to simplify kung anong magandang kanta sa Misa, dalawang kataga lamang ang dapat i-consider: "Angkop at Kaayaaya".

Angkop: dito babagsak ang mga katanungang:

- contextualized ba ang ang mga selected songs natin? Nasa context ba sila ng Liturgical Season at mga Readings natin sa Linggo ito? Nasa Tema ba?

-liturgical ba? Angkop ba sa particular liturgy at occasion tulad ng mga Misa sa kasal, binyag, burial, kumpil, ordination, atbp.

-at pwede ring itanong kung tama ba ang doktrina ng kanta? Ito'y kapag kakanta tayo ng mga awit na gawa ng hindi Katoliko. Makakabuting pag-aralan muna ang mga kantang ito upang maiwasan ang mga doktrinang hindi pang-Katoliko. Isangguni sa pari para makasiguro.

Kaayaaya: dito nama'y ang mga katanungang:

- inviting ba ang kanta? Kaya bang kantahin ito ng isang pangkaraniwang nagsisimba na hindi masyadong nabiyayaan pagdating sa musika?

- madali bang matutunan at kailangan lang ng kaunting panahon para ituro sa mga tao? At madaling tandaan para nang sa susunod ay alam na nila kahit hindi na ituro. Lalong-lalo na ang mga response songs.

So, I think our songs should be as simple as our ministry. We must not complicate it. Because what is at risk is 'yung tanging habol nating- "active participation" ng congregation.
Hindi kailangang magandang-maganda ang rendition na ang mangyayari'y the congregation will "just stand still in awe and amazement".

J O J I T
03.03.05, 07:33 AM
alam ko po yun. kaya nga po bago kami mag-voicing puro unison muna kanakanta namin eh lalo na sa mga responses.

ang tinutukoy ko lang po ay ang parte ng misa na palagay ko (sa akin lang po) na hindi kailangang sumabay ng tao. like communion and offertory. actually sa offertory nga po pwede namang instrumental lang diba? and sa communion, bakit nga ba may awit sa communion? para ba ito makatulong sa pagdarasal ng tao (background baga) o para hindi marinig yung maingay na yapak gawa ng pagpila nila para mangumyon.

thanks :)

Alexander
03.03.06, 11:07 PM
From what I have learned Jojit, anything that is processional in nature sa mass ay dapat sinasaliwan ng awit o musika. Ang Entrance Song ay inaawit dahil sa procession ng Mass presider at ng kanyang kasaman servers. Ganun din sa kanilang pag-exit kaya inaawitan ng Recessional Song.

Same is true with Presentation of the Gifts, processional ang manner ng offering kaya ito inaawitan. Ganoon din sa communion, processional ang pagtanggap natin sa Eucharist.

On a personal note, i think mas maganda talaga kung laging kasabay ang congregation sa pagkanta saan mang part ng mass. Imagine the crowd when the Pope arrived in 1995, alam lahat ng tao yung theme song kaya ang sarap pakinggan, You could imagine the Father in heaven singing with the crowd kasi all of these are intended to glorify GOD. Kaya if everybody is singing, we help them participate in the Worship.

I hope this helps.... :)

Koenji
03.03.07, 03:57 PM
Hi Jojit :)

I think there's no simple way of answering your questions. Perhaps we can know the answers by knowing the effects on the congregation when we sing the Offertory and the Communion Songs. I suggest we start with ourselves.

For me, singing the Offertory song enable me to unite myself into the communal offering of the faithful gathered together by the desire to offer "gifts", prayers, joys and even sufferings to God. That despite of my "lesser self" I can still approach Him and make an offering worthy of His goodness.

In addtion to what had been written regarding the Communion song, I believe singing it enable me to acknowledge His real presence in this part of the Mass. And so as I see Him in front of me offering Himself to me, I feel it is best for me to pray as I approch to receive Him. And if singing is praying twice, then singing the Communion song makes it more meaningful for me because I am worshiping Him twice.

This is just for me, though. ;)

budz
03.03.09, 08:13 AM
ok lang ang solo singing sa communion.

but it should not be encouraged at all times.occassional lang.lalo na kung maraming "magagaling" sa isang grupo.it could draw competition among its members.nakakalaki pa ng "ulo".at isa pa,ano pa ang silbi ng salitang "choral singing"?

yun lang po!

Punzi
03.05.29, 11:44 PM
Two sides to the issue:

1. Not solo: It encourages participatory singing and could bond the community more.

It avoids the "concert" atmosphere where the choir tries to impress the community. If that is the goal of the choir then, according to Jesus, that already is their reward or payment for the fine choir services they have rendered.

2. Solo: Depending on the song, it fosters solemnity and also leads the community to a prayerful, reflective state. Some people may be distracted with trying to sing with the choir. In short, the choir singing solo may establish a conducive atmosphere for prayer and reflection.

I don't really have a side to pick on this issue. It really depends also on the caliber and purpose of both the choir and the community.

It may also depend on the time of the liturgical year. I personally like to hear heart-tearing reflective songs sung solo during Lent. I like to hear community or popular songs during Advent or Christmas.

Sorry if I sound so lawyerly. ;)

regards to all

vannie
03.06.24, 08:07 PM
For me, it depends kung ano ang situation. But I prefer Choir singing kasi mas nakakasabay ang tao. MInsan din solo kasi depende rin kung pupunta yung member mo o hindi. Kasi minsan may nagsosolo sa pagkanta kasi walang uma-attend :)
kawawa naman no :(

opangan
03.06.30, 03:24 PM
Tingin ko sa offertory medyo kelangan buong choir kasi ang bayan ang nag-aalay, di ba? Pero sa communion pwede na siguro mag-solo minsan para mas makapagdasal ng mataimtim ang bayan, wag lang parang concert ang dating. Solemn pa rin kailangan. At kahit naman buong choir sa communion di naman kelangan na pang-concert yung kanta dahil hindi na rin makakapagnilay ang bayan dahil makikinig na lang sila sa galing ng choir.

c0rix
08.10.15, 05:30 PM
I would say no...

... nagkakaroon kasi ng opportunity na magpa-star ang solo-ista..

and we were not put there to show off our talents nor to entertain people...

plus.... if you choose to let just one person sing a song.. the others will lose interest in doing their part in singing.. thinking that since one person can manage to sing this song naman, why not let him / her do the whole mass...

yenzephyr
08.10.17, 03:20 PM
ako rin, tingin ko pag offertory, choir.

pag communion, pwede na mag-solo. anlayo kase ng daanan sa choir loft namin eh. so if every choir ang kumanta pag communion, magmamadali sila bumaba para mangumunyon.

montaro
08.10.17, 07:01 PM
ako rin, tingin ko pag offertory, choir.

pag communion, pwede na mag-solo. anlayo kase ng daanan sa choir loft namin eh. so if every choir ang kumanta pag communion, magmamadali sila bumaba para mangumunyon.

oo nga ano! aba praktikal!

reksuyah
08.10.17, 09:56 PM
ako rin, tingin ko pag offertory, choir.

pag communion, pwede na mag-solo. anlayo kase ng daanan sa choir loft namin eh. so if every choir ang kumanta pag communion, magmamadali sila bumaba para mangumunyon.

sana merong lay minister na umaakyat sa loft para magbigay ng komunyon, ala lang, suggestion lang. para makakanta naman kayo as a choir pag communion.

bluemurdock
08.10.18, 12:12 AM
Depende siguro.. Offertory, since it is the people offering sa Lord.. dapat lahat.. pero kung may kaunting parts na solo.. ok lang.. Communion, pwede solo.. since ang focus naman kapag communion is the individual prayer and reflection ng mga nagsisimba.. The lyrics of the songs help them digest more the teachings of the mass.. :)

adonis_cs
08.10.18, 10:35 PM
dapat choir talaga ang kakanta during offertory para sa akin..pag sa communion depende lang sa kanta kung pwede sa solo..:)

claramon
08.11.14, 12:48 AM
Depende siguro sa kanta yan. Kung may solo portion kasi talaga yung kanta, siguro nga kailangan na may soloista. Pero mas mainam pa rin kung choral singing, may harmony na, pwede pang sumabay ang parishioners, bale community singing na rin. Yun naman talaga ang isang function ng choir sa misa, to facilitate community singing.

chopinsky
08.11.14, 05:08 AM
it depends on the offertory song. there are some songs wherein there is a solo part accompanied by the choir. solo with choir is much more recommendable than having a solo part throughout the song. :)

LMacaranas
08.11.20, 03:20 PM
Para sakin, ok lang na magpa-solo kahit once or twice in a liturgical year.
May mga communion songs kasi, na para sakin, were meant to be sung in a solo manner.
Para kasing mas "personal" siya, na parang when you hear a soloist singing a beautiful song, you can relate with her/him and it's like you're talking to God one-on-one...
Just you and your saviour.....

Pinakamagandang example diyan yung "Hesus ng Aking Buhay".

herald
08.11.20, 03:57 PM
sana merong lay minister na umaakyat sa loft para magbigay ng komunyon, ala lang, suggestion lang. para makakanta naman kayo as a choir pag communion.

dapat kasi alam na ng Lay ministers na kailangan ding magkomunyon mga choir, kami nga kahit sa baba nilalapitan pa,

it depends on the offertory song. there are some songs wherein there is a solo part accompanied by the choir. solo with choir is much more recommendable than having a solo part throughout the song. :)


agree!

bammuzk
08.11.27, 09:57 PM
depende... kung may permision na pwedeng mgsolo galing sa taas...
dapat kasi choir talaga... na-try namin yan dito sa min. kaso pinagalitan kami ng priest namin.. bakit daw mgsosolo-solo pa... di na man daw concert... dapat choir talaga... :)

titopao
08.11.28, 09:33 AM
Just thought of sharing this...meron akong na-encounter na blog post where the blogger contacted the Vatican through a snail-mailed letter, with compelete letter---not just addressed to some deparment clerk, but the head of a Congregation, mind you---and among the questions answered by the congregation head's representative involved the issue of permitting a soloist in singing at the offertory and the communion.

Just to pique your interest, hindi ko muna sasabihin yung complete post until I have downloaded a copy of the said letter and cross-referenced the items in the response. But to give you a hint, the said official gave an answer that was short of saying, singing solo at the offertory and communino may be permitted, however counterintuitive it sounds :)

NikNoK
08.11.28, 10:03 AM
Hi, just thought of sharing you guys kung ano yung practice namin d2 sa parish namin with our choirs during Communion.


Bago pa man mag-simula ang misa, we already coordinated with Lay Ministers and requested na sa simula pa lang ng communion, pumunta na agad sa area namin para magbigay ng komunyon sa mga choir members.

And here's how I do it with my choir para hindi naman totally walang kumakanta during start of communion. I usually prepare a 2-part harmony (duet) song para kantahin ng 2 members ko at the start of the communion. So habang nagdu-duet yung 2, the rest of the choir members ay nakapila na para mangomunyon. Pag tapos na yung duet song, back to Choir arrangement na ulit, then yung 2 naman ang mangongomunyon. It works pretty well naman, lahat nakakapagkomunyon.


And as to the main topic, Iniiwasan ko yung pagkanta ng solo parts during offertory, mas ok pa rin yung choir singing para makasabay yung community. Pag solo kasi ang tendency, makinig lang yung congregation eh. Siguro kung communion song pa, medyo ok lang yung solo kasi most of the congregation naman ay nagdadasal o nagmemeditate after na makapagkomunyon sila except siguro yung mga tao na gusto talaga na sumasabay sa mga kanta ng choir sa lahat ng parts ng mass. Basta yung song for solo eh hindi pa rin dapat concert type.. dapat yung pangsimbahan pa rin. :)

titopao
08.11.28, 10:09 AM
Yun din actually yung line of thinking nung Vatican official na nag-reply sa blogger na nabasa ko. Something along the lines of: as much as possible, wag magpakanta ng solo, but in cases na talagang kailangang-kailangan kumanta ng solo, e di payagan. One such instance na explicitly binanggit, if memory serves me right, is that pag walang singers.

Mas gusto ko kasing i-quote in toto for authenticity :P hehehehehe

eduserusan
08.11.28, 12:03 PM
@titopao

Medyo nai-intrigue ako dun sa mga sinasabi mo ah... Can't wait na mabasa yung sinasabi mong source.

Cheers!:)