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kenmuyot
08.02.23, 11:44 AM
bago lang ako sa site na to... i just want to ask 4 some comments kung anong mas maganda during mass... organ sound or piano sound? bago lang din kasi akong member ng music ministry sa parish namin... maikwento ko lang, nung nakaraang sunday, after ng mass na tinugtugan ko, may lumapit saking ale, nagpakilala sya sakin, volunteer catechist daw xa... nag-suggest sa sakin na mag organ sound daw ako (that time kase puro piano ako eh)... kaso kapag nag o-organ ako, parang tinatamad ako, walang arpeggio, alang dynamics, parang alang thrill ba. :)


nu sa tingin nyo? :)

Fanny
08.02.23, 12:13 PM
i love to play bukaspalad songs in Piano or piano strings accompaniment kaysa plain organ.. Cguro, kung anu ang dapat fit na instument sa song, yun ang gagamitin mo. Other type of songs are beautiful to hear in organ. Mas maganda kung creative ka din...Monotonous kung palagi ka lang plain organ. ibat-ibang klaseng instument ang iyung gagamitin. eka nga.."variation is an art.." E try mu kung saan hiyang ang instrument at kung anung song, maganda pakinggan ang instument. merun kasi song na di bagay sa Piano accompaniment, mas maganda siya sa organ or ibang instrument. Happy playing the instument..! God bless you all.

chopinsky
08.02.23, 01:44 PM
there are mass songs na mas bagay ung sound ng organ.. especially the latin songs.. ika nga nila..organ sound is considered conservative... but if i were to choose... i prefer to play piano (especially Yamaha clavinova) with dual voice like strings sa mga common mass songs ng Jesuits..

bluemurdock
08.02.23, 05:07 PM
depende sa song eh.. if medyo "pop" or fast beat or quite emotional.. piano
pero if conservative songs nga.. Latin... organ tayo.. ;)

lionel
08.03.01, 03:25 AM
I agree with what everyone said.

Songs which are usually fast and rhythmic need a rhythm instrument >> piano. (usually: Gathering, Recessional, Holy)

Slower songs with lots of sustained portions (melodies) need an instrument which can sustain notes >> organ. (usually: Offertory, Communion, Great Amen, Lamb of God, etc.)

You choose which kind of song needs which sound based on the above.


Keep praising God through your music!

centrunion
08.03.02, 01:25 PM
Depende sa mood ng kanta. Pwede naman piano pero may kasamang string (like slow strings). Pampakapal. May mga kanta talaga na kailangan pure piano para mas effective. Yong iba talaga kelangan organ naman. Dati nung may organista kami, organ. Kaso ang bagal ng mga kanta namin. Pero ngayon, since we use midi, piano style na. Depende din kung gusto mong palitawin ang boses lalo na kung ang choir particulae sa harmony (SATB). Hindi ako marunong magpiano but I can play church organ; yong may pedal (Yamaha Electone)

buhaykanta
08.03.03, 08:12 PM
like what everyone said, it depends on the song. In our choir kasi (I sing in UPCRL, so no, we're not Catholic. Protestant Church Siya), we sing the hymns with the organ, and our main pieces (as in full blown SATB arrangements nina Clydesdale and the like) with a piano

robgreyes
08.03.06, 10:59 PM
i play using (plain) standard grand piano tone. kapag organ sound kasi natatabunan ung harmony. tsaka mas may feelings ang tunog kapag piano, sa touch response mo na lang i-control ang sound.

for latin songs nga, best pa rin ang pipe/church organ sound. =)

theusII
08.03.10, 12:07 PM
Hi,

So far, sa aming parish, we do not have that much option eh, we do not have a pino to use maski gusto naming gamitin sa service. pero oks lang usually cylon string guitar ng lang ginagamit namin in place of piano, un lang matrabaho sa part ko as arranger kasi kailangan ko pang ayusin ang balanse kasi hindi naman kayang gawin lahat ng gitara ang sonority na meron sa piano eh

Alexander
08.03.11, 05:43 AM
like what everyone said, it depends on the song. In our choir kasi (I sing in UPCRL, so no, we're not Catholic. Protestant Church Siya), we sing the hymns with the organ, and our main pieces (as in full blown SATB arrangements nina Clydesdale and the like) with a piano

hi buhaykanta,

It's nice to know that there are other Christian denomination na kasama natin sa discussion. Welcome.

Anong Protestant Church kayo? I would assume na me UP... is it Pentecostal?

titopao
08.03.11, 07:59 AM
hi buhaykanta,

It's nice to know that there are other Christian denomination na kasama natin sa discussion. Welcome.

Anong Protestant Church kayo? I would assume na me UP... is it Pentecostal?

Alex, I think buhaykanta mentioned "UPCRL" = "UP Church of the Risen Lord". Yung Christian church na malapit din sa Catholic church ng UP :)

Alexander
08.03.11, 08:33 AM
Thanks for the clarification titopao. I wasn't able to capture that as I read only the most recent post.



On a side note, please consider all comments on this thread as "personal preference" and not what the Church prefers to be used in liturgy. Thanks

Sugarhigh
08.03.12, 11:54 AM
My personal preference is for the piano - *granted, we don't have access to an organ at our chapel*. I find the organ so formal and less expressive somehow than the piano. For example, I love the Himig Hewsita / Prayers from the Upper Room recordings with Fr. Arnel on piano - he plays so beautifully! It really puts you in a reflective mood.... :)

buhaykanta
08.03.13, 03:39 PM
hi buhaykanta,

It's nice to know that there are other Christian denomination na kasama natin sa discussion. Welcome.

Anong Protestant Church kayo? I would assume na me UP... is it Pentecostal?

yeah, tito pao is right. UPCRL means Church of the Risen Lord. It's a methodist church.

and yes, what i posted was pretty much preference as well. I like how it works :)

sasori16
08.03.17, 06:08 PM
Bakit ganun .. samin Organ . Hehe kasi para masustain ung ibang notes :D

rafgar
08.03.17, 07:06 PM
Hi! I'm new here and this is my first post.

With regard to the question, I usually prefer piano sound for choral pieces unless the instrumental arrangement is for organ. Parang mas soothing sa tenga ang piano accompaniment specially for contemporary church music.

lionel
08.03.18, 06:41 AM
Bakit ganun .. samin Organ . Hehe kasi para masustain ung ibang notes :D

Totoo yan! Helps the choir and congregation hear what the notes are.

This is actually why the pipe organ is preferred for the Mass. Because it is very close to the properties of the human voice (it uses wind for one thing).

vielle
08.03.19, 11:33 PM
They are all right.. It really depends sa songs to be accompanied, what matters most is how you are going to play it... Just play it by heart and for sure it will be wonderful...

dhenzv
08.03.26, 11:55 AM
Hi bago lang po ako dito..and find this forum very good..anyway with regards to the topic..

tama ung sabi ng iba na it all depends on what is the genre of the music, syempre kung medyo senti and you want to emphasize the feeling piano is the best way to play it,

but sa case namin dito sa sanlorenzo church (olongapo city), we always play the organ, because aside from organ, sinasabayan din namin ng guitar and drums,

yukito1206
08.04.29, 06:54 AM
Pag ballad ang song o may pagka-mellow bagay ang piano. pero kung tipong Papuri o yung joyful na songs mas preferred ang organ

cloud45
08.04.30, 10:50 PM
For me mas ok ang piano,prang mas feel ko lng kc ang mga tugtog pgdating s piano kaysa s organ.

kenmuyot
08.05.03, 12:45 PM
good day!


nakita ko kasi yung papuri no... siguro yun ang dahilan kung bakit ako kinonfront nung sister... kase that tym pina piano ko ang papuri...(--, ) kase that time hindi ko gamay ung bass pedals sa ibaba...


pero after reading all your comments, i studied using the bass pedals saka ko sinasabayan ng rhythm... at mukhang maayos naman sya. hehe


may isa pa po akong tanong... sino po bang nakaaalam kung pano pinapalabas ung timpani sound sa electones?

Yna Suello
08.05.03, 02:28 PM
Personally, mas feel ko ang pagtugtog kung piano sound. Pero like Kuya Fanny said, it depends on the song. May mga kanta kasi na nagiging masyadong plain for accompaniment kung piano lang. I don't usually use the organ sound, I just put "string" or "orchestra layer" which gives more 'grandioso' effect to songs na dapat talaga ay grandioso ang dating.

Hope nakatulong ang comment ko! :)

Punzi
08.05.03, 11:56 PM
Personally, mas gusto ko ang piano kasi parang mas-intimate pakinggan. Ang organ kasi, personally, parang "formal attire" kumpara sa piano na "smart casual" o kaya "pambahay."

Minsan talaga, gusto mo lang nakampambahay ka lang imbes na nangangati sa suot na formal na damit.

But enough of the fashion analogy...

In the end, either instrument, as long as played well at para sa Panginoon, ok na rin.

regards to all :)

sweetdoll623
08.05.06, 12:48 PM
I think the organ is better than piano esp in church choirs

jeng ocampo
08.05.06, 05:11 PM
Hello. It actually depends on the song. There are songs na mas effective for reflection if we use Piano. Minsan naman like Papuri songs, mas ok ang organ kase mas nagiging papuri talaga ang dating niya. So whichever it is, for as long as hindi destructing at motivates the parishoners to pray more.

Jeng :)

empauls
08.05.22, 01:03 PM
May nabasa akong Church Document,hindi ko alam kung sa Roman Missal yun. It states that the Organ is the preffered instrument in the Holy Mass. Pero para sa akin,pag malalaking Simbahan, its proper to use the Church Organ talaga. Pero kung maliit na Simbahan o Chapel, para sa'kin its more appropriate to use a piano or keyboards. Kasi pag maliit lang yung venue,mas maganda e mas personal yung tunog ng instrument. Mas inspirational ba. E pag Organ kasi, parang engrande talaga ang tunog. Pag Piano mas personal ang dating.
'

lenconstantino
08.05.22, 02:54 PM
songs and compositions nowadays are more upbeat and requires rhythm.. sound of the piano is relaxing din and you can create solemn music pa din naman:)...

kenmuyot
08.05.22, 06:40 PM
yup i agree to empauls... very well said. hehehe

ang mahirap lang kasi sa organ, lalo na kapag sanay ka sa piano... e yung arpeggios... pwede kayang mag arpeggio sa organ? hehe

dangpogi
09.03.01, 12:24 PM
siguro i prefer ung piano o keyboard..kasi most of the mass songs ngeun e bagay pang keyboard..bihira nlng ung organ..pero pede din organ pero limited lang ung pede o matugtog dun..

nlim
09.03.01, 12:47 PM
Para sa akin organ pa rin. Kung formal ang oragan kaysa sa piano, di ba dapat lang dahil we are singing for GOd? If the composition was originally done in a piano, then they should be adopted or done also for organ arrangement (practically okay namang tugtugin sa organ halos lahat ng piano music at the pedal can just be a simple base para sa beat). :)

NikNoK
09.03.02, 09:35 AM
Para sa Misa.. I think mas appropriate ang tunog ng Organ.. especially this LENTEN season.

yenzephyr
09.03.06, 12:25 PM
organ siguro. opinion lang naman. nung nasira kase yung isang box pipe organ sa hall namin (pag madami kaseng tao at hindi kasya sa church namin, sa hall nagmimisa), piano muna ang ginamit habang pinapaayos yung isa. kung sa pandinig, parang mas okay yung organ.

czyre
09.03.06, 12:58 PM
I use keyboards sa chapel namin, papalit-palit nalang ng voice ng kepboard depende sa kanta. May songs kasi na mas magandang kantahin na Piano ang accompaniment. But most of the time naka-strings ako - para hindi masyadong halata pag nagkamali hehehe...

Paulus_Magnus
09.03.07, 01:01 AM
In my opinion, it depends on the structure. Yung organ is bagay sa malalaking simbahan, while the piano is bagay sa mga chapels.

bagay din ang organ sa mga lumang simbahan at ang piano sa mga medyo art-deco na simbahan.

Paulus_Magnus
09.03.07, 01:04 AM
Tama si Sir Moderator NikNok: Bagay ang Organ sa Lent

ernanibaetiong
09.03.07, 08:18 AM
@Paulus_Magnus, instead of post padding please use the HR tag next time if you really have to put in several ideas in one post :)

post pad

Piano I think is good for intimate services for about maybe 500 people or less, well that's just my preference. Other factors I consider are the structure-if its an "ancient" building like an old monastery or so,it would definitely be better to use an organ. But for a modernist structure like for example the Church of Gesu, I'd prefer to use the piano.

Like my first statement, I believe the organ would do a better job if there are hordes upon hordes of mass goers, since the piano wouldn't be able to support the congregational singing.

markjeff
09.03.07, 10:20 AM
sa pinas kasi mixed e kung ano ang instrument na available sa church. but if you check musicam sacram and PIPE ORGAN ang opisyal na instrumento. ang piano ata ang opisyal na instrumento sa proestanteng simbahan.

titopao
09.03.07, 09:46 PM
sa pinas kasi mixed e kung ano ang instrument na available sa church. but if you check musicam sacram and PIPE ORGAN ang opisyal na instrumento. ang piano ata ang opisyal na instrumento sa proestanteng simbahan.

For the nth time, uulitin ko, the Vatican did NOT say that the organ is the "only" "official" instrument for music worship. There is nothing in the General Instruction on the Roman Missal, Musicam Sacram or Sacrosanctum Concilium that says so. In fact, Musicam Sacram does not mention this so-called provision about the exclusive use of the organ in any of its sections.

It does quote one passage from Sacrosanctum Concilium, though. See this particular section in Sacrosanctum Concilium: (http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html)

120. In the Latin Church the pipe organ is to be held in high esteem, for it is the traditional musical instrument which adds a wonderful splendor to the Church's ceremonies and powerfully lifts up man's mind to God and to higher things.

But other instruments also may be admitted for use in divine worship, with the knowledge and consent of the competent territorial authority, as laid down in Art. 22, 52, 37, and 40. This may be done, however, only on condition that the instruments are suitable, or can be made suitable, for sacred use, accord with the dignity of the temple, and truly contribute to the edification of the faithful.

Iba ang meaning ng "highly esteemed" sa "required", "mandatory" or "compulsory". The Vatican clearly says it still allows other instruments in worship, as long as these instruments are "lawfully approved".

vcasunuran
09.03.10, 02:33 PM
magdepende na lang po sa Song na tutugtugin. may binabagayan kc ang bawat kanta sa instrumento.

bluemurdock
09.03.10, 02:45 PM
Our choir prefers the piano, pero merong mga pari na medyo ayaw ang piano, parang nagcoconcert daw ang tunog.. we tried to communicate sa pari para malinawan kung bakit para sa kanya parang concert ang tunog.. he cant give us a decent answer, basta he feels daw na parang concert.. anyway, para walang away, nagorgan na lang kami.. :)

rammstein
09.04.15, 05:32 AM
magdepende na lang po sa Song na tutugtugin. may binabagayan kc ang bawat kanta sa instrumento.

I agree! May mga kanta talaga na binabagayan ng plain piano accompaniment, meron din naman na pipe organ sounds.

Sa church namin, may electronic organ kaya you have lots of choices sa timbre ng keyboard mo. Yun nga lang, hindi maganda yung sound ng piano setting, sobra nipis. I would rather bring my keyboard just to get that nice "piano" sound per diyahe naman magdala ng keyboard every sunday just to play one song na feel mong bagay sa piano sound. :-)

guldilaks
09.04.16, 01:54 PM
Sa choir namin, depende sa songs.. usually kung grand or majestic ang gusto namin effect we use pipe or organ sound.... most of the time sa mga latin songs nga. For Bukas palad and hangad songs piano, sometimes layered with strings will do.

nlim
09.04.16, 06:48 PM
As long as sa church preferred ko pa rin ang pipe organ sound. Though dapat kung written sa piano alam ng organist tugtugin sa organ para mawala ang pagka pop na datin. Opinion ko lang ito ha?:)

ryudo05
09.04.16, 07:33 PM
I prefer using piano layered with strings. Maganda kasi ang sound smooth and mas solemn ang dating. Masarap sa tenga at buo yung tunog (based on the instrument available sa chapel namin) pero kung may available na church organ okay din ito naman talaga ang pinagaralan ko.

rammstein
09.04.17, 03:12 AM
Sa choir namin, depende sa songs.. usually kung grand or majestic ang gusto namin effect we use pipe or organ sound.... most of the time sa mga latin songs nga. For Bukas palad and hangad songs piano, sometimes layered with strings will do.

I agree with you. But both instruments can sound dull and boring at times... both can also sound uplifting and majestic. It depends on the mood and skill of the player, I guess.

Basta organ, nasa tamang timpla ng tab stops (and effects, kung meron)... sa piano layered with strings naman, basta di masyado malakas yung strings layer, para prominent yung percussive and expressive sound ng piano... that's just my opinion. Your ears will always be the ultimate judge.

titopao
09.04.17, 09:09 AM
I agree with you. But both instruments can sound dull and boring at times... both can also sound uplifting and majestic. It depends on the mood and skill of the player, I guess.

You can actually make the same case for any instrument.

For example, every violinist dreams to acquire a Stradivarius violin, but if your violin-playing skills are not that good, the instrument cannot make up for your lack of expression (among other things).

In the end, provided you have a decent or good instrument (in other words, hindi yung mga mumurahin na pangit naman tulad ng mga japeyk na organ na Made in China na binebenta sa mga malls), the beauty of the instrument's sound will depend on your playing, not on the instrument itself.

Walang "boring" or "dull" na instrument, ikaw pa rin ang magdadala ng tugtog 8)

Ana Maria Licup
09.04.17, 11:45 PM
Depende rin sa kanta. Like for example for responsorial psalm, Gregorian chants, Latin mass songs mas maganda kung church organ. For songs like In My Heart, I Will Sing Forever, O Hesus Hilumin Mo, etc. mas bagay talaga piano sound.

in my heart
09.04.20, 03:33 PM
For me piano.....pero ang gamit ko strings....na sanay ang tenga ko sa string....wala kasi akong pedal sa keyboard, eh gusto may sustain..pero for me piano...

qstorm
09.04.21, 02:18 PM
Let's face it. Today's liturgical music is a mix of contemporary songs and traditional hymns. Whether the organ sound or piano sound is better depends also on the type of music you will play and how you will play it. Generally speaking most songs can be effectively rendered on the piano or by using the piano voice. But I think for "grandiose" processional hymns, organ voices provide a better accompaniment to the musical setting.

Although my instrument of preference is the organ, I would opt to use the piano instead of a low-end organ model.

ernanibaetiong
09.04.21, 04:25 PM
Although my instrument of preference is the organ, I would opt to use the piano instead of a low-end organ model.

I think thats one reason why many accompanists in churches opt for the piano (piano sound), cause those darn organs are just too old hehe.

Let me also add by saying that if given a choice between 2 oh so old organ models, I'd opt for a Hammond and not those so so brands (hey they were so so organ brands before, the ones our grand mothers place on the sala with matching cloth cover , a family picture and a few ornamental plants hehehe) LOL

nlim
09.04.21, 04:51 PM
ernanibaetiong,
yes, kung sa tunog lang naman ng mumurahing organ, mag piano ka na lang. Ang dami kasi na tunog electronic. We were using hammond nce pero nasira na. Napalit ay EL100 na Yamaha. It is never the same, pati pedal boards naligaw na ako dahil iba ang distansya.Masarap pa ring mag adjust ng drawbars at tunog pipe talaga.
Piano is always an option sa lahat ng lumalabas na organs ngayon. Though sira na ang floppy ng EL100 sa amin ang hirap mag pre-set ulit ng isa-isa.
Nahiirapan ako pag naka touch response ang organ. Parang wala nang ibirit ang daliri kokahit itodo ko pa ang volume pedal. Wala kasi nun sa hammond dati.

titopao
09.04.21, 05:09 PM
Nahiirapan ako pag naka touch response ang organ. Parang wala nang ibirit ang daliri kokahit itodo ko pa ang volume pedal. Wala kasi nun sa hammond dati.

Good point you mentioned here, because real organs do not have touch response. You control the volume using the right pedal ;)

qstorm
09.04.22, 11:08 AM
ernanibaetiong,
Napalit ay EL100 na Yamaha. It is never the same,...Masarap pa ring mag adjust ng drawbars at tunog pipe talaga...
Nahiirapan ako pag naka touch response ang organ... Wala kasi nun sa hammond dati.

Iba talaga pag may drawbars or organ flutes. Kakainis nga lang nung na-phase out yung EL-x0 series ng Yamaha at pumasok yun EL-x00 series, yung organ flutes na dati available from EL-40 up ay available na lang sa EL-700/900 na very pricey na at that time! Further, nung pumasok yung STAGEA series, available na lang sya sa ELS-01C and ELS-01X. Yung ELS-01 at ELB-01, walang organ flutes. Almost half a million just to have the drawbars and you'll have to manipulate it on the touch screen LCD :(

BTW, yung tone-wheel type na mga Hammond (the original B-3/C3) meron ding so-called "touch response" pero it's completely different from the TR that we know today haha. Ewan ko kung bakit sa mga antique na brochure nila touch response and nakalagay. :D

ernanibaetiong
09.04.24, 02:00 PM
Badtrip kamo ko kapatid sa EL 100 na yan (haha naku no offense kay Prinze ha), kala ko kasi pareho sila ng voices nung EL 45 na gamay ko, yun pala wala nga flute settings at wala din ang paborito kong Timpani, yun nga lang swabe ang strings kaya yun na lang pinagtyagaan ko, at feeling ko OT na ko hehe :P

Hot_keys
09.04.26, 12:29 AM
Everybody here has their own opinion. Tama nga naman, depende sa mood, sa type of songs (majestic etc.), big church or chapel, etc. But for my opinion, depende yan sa musician. It's a matter of studies and knowledge sa instruments and sa songs. Di rin naman pag meditation dapat kailangan piano sound...yun po and chalenge dun, how you make those songs sounds good kahit organ or piano and instrument. How to use organ pedals right, how to use organ w/ touch and responce aside from volume pedal. They made it with purpose. It's a matter of how to use it. Dapat every instrumentalist should do more practice nd research. How top play organ with pedals, organ on keyboards (weighted keys), piano on organ....vice versa. Modelo man o luma.

Opinion ko lang po. Peace!

qstorm
09.04.27, 09:35 AM
Badtrip kamo ko kapatid sa EL 100 na yan....wala nga flute settings at wala din ang paborito kong Timpani...

Haha..yan yata yung organ na nakalimutan lagyan ng organ:P

c0rix
09.05.03, 04:58 AM
I use Piano voices.. I prefer them over Organ voices.. kasi i find the organ voices really slow... and because of that nagiging relaxed ang group ko..

nawawalan ng life yung mga kinakanta nila dahil nga naman bumabagal, nawawala ang emphasis sa ilang parts ng kanta..

rammstein
09.05.04, 03:31 AM
...i find the organ voices really slow...

nawawalan ng life yung mga kinakanta nila dahil nga naman bumabagal, nawawala ang emphasis sa ilang parts ng kanta..

bro, i'm a pianist myself so, somehow i get a picture of what you mean, kaya lang di ko ma-imagine yung mabagal na organ sound. electronic organ ba yan? have you tried adjusting the ADSR settings? you can get pretty cool and lively sounds with the organ. :)

nlim
09.05.04, 09:20 AM
Corix,
anung setting ba ang gamit mo baka naman sobrang taas ng sustain mo kaya di mkpasok ang susunod na nota sa audio?
kung pipe organ na electric switch ang gamit mo baka maniwala pa ako. Pero sigurado ako electronic lang din ang gamit mo at pare pareho lang naman ang response niyan.Never heard na may mabagal na electronic organ.
Try mong adjust ADSR gaya nga ng sabi ni rammstein.

cidcid01
09.05.04, 04:58 PM
ahhh...... sa tingin ko mass maganda tunog ng organ ehhh..
kya lang matatanda na cla ...

ernanibaetiong
09.05.04, 05:25 PM
Applicable din siguro yung saying dun sa photography thread:

Its the indian not, the pana LOL

rammstein
09.05.05, 01:10 AM
...Its the indian not, the pana LOL

i agree, with a some exceptions... minsan, the "pana" still matters. i'm sure you'll agree with me that there's a big difference between Bro. Roland and Sis. Miles. :P

aligen2008
09.05.22, 09:48 AM
we'll...para sakin, as an instrumentalist, mas prefer ku ung piano w/ string, mas maganda kasing pakinggan, but on the second thought, it depends din sa uri ng kanta at kung saan ito kakantahin! peace!!!

maj
09.06.23, 01:47 PM
mahirap mag-adjust ang isang pianistang katulad ko...tama na lang din sa akin yung piano with strings...di ko kasi masyadong ma-appreciate pag organ...maybe because dragging ang dating and nahihirapan akong pakantahin ang choir nang nasa beat unless magconduct ako..Godblessusall...:)

harharthegreat
09.06.25, 05:22 PM
depende....
kung high mass mas astig ang tunog ng pipe organ hehehe
kung ordinary i can settle sa piano
kasi u cannot be true to a kind or genre of music kung di m ito tutugtugin ng period nya..
for example:
ang chaka ng greagorian kung piano ang gagamitin
or ang humayo't ihayag pag nka pipe

ergo...
pareho cla mahalaga dapat alm ng Musical director ang tamang balanse sa pamimili ng instrumento hehehe
peace out

maj
09.06.27, 04:26 AM
just to ask your opinion, you think i need to review playing the pipe organ?? paano kung mga bukaspalad pieces, possible kaya na gamitin ko ang organ?would it sound nice?? sa totoo lang kasi, sayang yung pipe organ namin dito na inadhika pa ng mga svd german priests...as in, talagang walang matyagang gumamit...hirap kasi on my part, di na ako makapag-conduct kasi di ko na makita mga members pag pipe organ ang gamit ko.then, mahirap magpraktis...i need to alot time to practice in church which is very taxing for me to do as a mom..:)

Alexander
09.07.01, 07:06 AM
When the Pipe Organ was invented, it does not have the Pinoy style (parang spaghetti sauce :P) music in liturgy in mind. Even the Hontiveros style songs, Kundiman style not even the modern Jescom music style which uses Piano or guitar as base for music wont be fitting if you use the Pipe Organ.

There are certain music that would fit in to it. It it is being prescribed, you can always ask your Priest or Liturgical Commission which songs to use.

nlim
09.07.01, 08:25 AM
One have to adapt the musical score for a pipe organ if it is originally arranged for a different instrument. If you do not happen to know that the pipe organ as the giant and king of all instrument was bastardized by a synthesizer. It does not sound only like a pipe or the ordinary reed that you are commonly hear and horror sounds that you are familiar with on Bach's fugue. I think familiarization with the soft side of the organ or hearing them will familiarize you with the different sounds a pipe organ can make (depends also on the number of ranks and division)
Why not try to listen to the softer sound of the organ, not the fanfare and organblasting side of it.
The Pipe organ will sound on how you tame it. You need to know more about drawbars, presets and couplers and listen to sacred pipe organ music not just say that it sounds awkward for songs that you want to adapt from a piano accompanied arrangement. Cheers!:) Just watch the videos above on some demos that I recommend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lmBeUW_88E


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtOivZSOLLI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUmOHyeoSy0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz0CV5PgG-o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik_hAdp1BKk

ernanibaetiong
09.07.01, 10:28 AM
good points coming from nlim, sadly I'm not really sure on this but I think the pipe organ that maj uses (or is planning to use) only has one (or limited) setting/s, that may be why there is this problem. Maj teaches in a seminary and I assume it only has one manual, more likely a "horror" sounding one at that :P

Which brings me to a question, where in the Philippines can we find a pipe organ with the complete orchestra on it?

I saw one in a youtube video of the organ at the Trinity Church in New York, it even has timpani on it.

The most versatile pipe organ I myself have used is the one the episcopal cathedral inside Trinity University of Asia, and I found myself second guessing on what to press arghhhh...

titopao
09.07.01, 10:55 AM
@nlim: 101% agree. Using Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor as the sole representative piece for the organ is not a good idea. People who ordinarily associate the organ with horror movies haven't heard of "Jesu Joy of Man Desiring" and "Sheep May Safely Graze" on the organ. (And of course, Pachelbel's "Canon in D".) I'm sure they'll change their minds once they hear those pieces ;)

@maj: I'll begin with some alternatives: Try mong maghanap ng mga choral works ni John Rutter, the piano parts translate well to the pipe organ :)

Songs from the Taize Community in France are written (and, accdg. to the brothers, should be performed) in the classical style, so they also go well with the organ.

Anyways, as for JMM songs, the moderate-to-slow pieces can be played in the pipe organ, but to be idiomatic I suggest avoiding syncopations altogether. You can also do less with figurations unlike in the original piano accompaniments for these pieces.

Fr. Hontiveros wrote his songs in the folk-song/traditional-song style, so these should be playable in the organ w/o losing the substance. The same thing applies to his contemporaries such as Nemy Que, Danny Isidro, Fruto Hontiveros etc. Their songs should be playable using the pipe organ as well.
(Note to Alex: Dito ako disagree sa 'yo. The style of Fr. Honti songs in themselves lend well to the organ, as long as the accompaniment is played in a traditional/classical way so...yes, that generation of songs can be played in the pipe organ.)

As for the "newer" JMM artists (i.e. from Fr. Mano/BP to Hangad to Fr. Arnel Aquino/Himig Heswita), this is where you must avoid the syncopations I mentioned earlier. (That is, if you want the accompaniment to sound more idiomatic or "at home" for the organ.) I would suggest that you keep the main supporting parts (pedal, left hand) on the beat, or on half-beats, and let the right hand play the melody w/ the syncopated parts.

The more upbeat songs from the second-/third-generation JMM composers are the ones that may pose a problem, this is where you might find the songs to be "unfit" for the pipe organ. Examples: Humayo't Ihayag, I Will Sing Forever, Sa Batong Ito etc. If the priests in your church will permit it, do have some time to try out the pieces in the pipe organ durin rehearsal and see if it will work or not (kesa naman na sa misa mo pa susubukan yun).

Alexander
09.07.01, 11:04 AM
Fr. Hontiveros wrote his songs in the folk-song/traditional-song style, so these should be playable in the organ w/o losing the substance. The same thing applies to his contemporaries such as Nemy Que, Danny Isidro, Fruto Hontiveros etc. Their songs should be playable using the pipe organ as well.
(Note to Alex: Dito ako disagree sa 'yo. The style of Fr. Honti songs in themselves lend well to the organ, as long as the accompaniment is played in a traditional/classical way so...yes, that generation of songs can be played in the pipe organ.)



Come to think of it, meron nga naman mga songs na suitable for pipe, ang nasa isip ko kasi was the pastorelas and the waltz beat songs ni Fr Honti e. Pero kahit paano it can be played... e.g., Purihi't Pasalamatan, Purihin ang Panginoon, Pananagutan, etc).

But... and this is a big "but"... when playing the pipe oran, do not think of using chorded arrangements, para kasing di maganda ang tunog pag nakababad ;)

Thanks for the observation titopao.

d0d0fer
09.07.01, 01:53 PM
Maganda mga tugtog ni Lucio San Pedro tulad ng "Isang Pagkain, Isang Katawan, Isang Bayan" at "Despedida Ala Virgen" para sa pipe organ o keyboards/synthezisers na tunog pipe organ.

titopao
09.07.01, 03:34 PM
@d0d0fer: Actually, lahat halos ng mga musica sacra ni Maestro Lucio San Pedro ay pupwede sa pipe organ. Maski nga yung "Simbang Gabi", p'wede rin dun ;)

nlim
09.07.01, 04:00 PM
Tama si titopao, when we started our choir we never played anything on a piano or chose the piano though ang mga Tinig San Jose Audios which has casettes as the medium were accompanied in piano- Luwalhati Sa Diyos (Papuri), Kahangahanga, Hesus na Aking Kapatid, Ama Namin, etc... we never noticed any difference they can all be played in Legato style in our Hammond organ, the pedal base keeps you in rhythm kahit nagumpisa ako sa chords on my left hand. All of Lucio San Pedro's sacred works can definitely be played for pipe organ or any electronic sounding organ.
Kahit single manual lang ang pipe organ like the Las Pinas Bamboo Organ - it sounded so mellow and sweet using the flute and majestic using the trumpet pipes. So kahit siguro sa harmonium which sounded all like reed will still be a good choice to use - kailangan lang malakas ang legs mo or fan operated ito sa bellows.:)

maj
09.07.01, 11:45 PM
thank you very much, brothers...your replies are well regarded as they are all substantial...it's a pity that no one ever bothers to use the pipe organ in our cathedral...if you have seen the pipe organ of san beda, ours looks and functions exactly the same as theirs. fr. maramba even came to our town to perform and it was really grand! i have learned a lot from you guys...now my mind is topsy-turvy...i am torn between prioritizing things...about where to put my real self. as of now, i have been in-charge of teaching the voices, and eventually conducting the choir...we have actually organists here who play by chords and by ear, but nobody does the real thing, and they would not succumb themselves to using the pipes since they find it "makaluma". i have studied pipe organ as my minor but never really mastered the craft.(maybe that is the reason why i also do not choose to use it).now, as i see the value of it, i am bothered with the responsibility of utilizing the best that we have. this point in time, i am drowned with too much to say that i would do it...but, rest assured, for the church and for the love of God, i'l try my best in the near future, to review my feet into playing the pipes again....God bless you all...:)

nlim
09.07.02, 08:04 AM
maj.
minor mo naman pala so it will be a breeze for you to adopt to it. Ako hanggang Hammond lang at pakikinig lang ng mga pipe organ music, try to have and look at the webpage of the Organ Historical Society sa States and see how they revere the old faithful organ.
Narinig ko na ang pipe organ sa San Beda and it is sweet sounding specially noong marinig kong tinugtog ang Sheep May Safely Graze ni Bach ang ganda at nakaka uplift ng solemnity ng ambiance.
Suggestion ko lang since you are the choir master at magpra-practice kana, some parts of the mass can be played without the choir like the entrance and the recessional and interludes, why not try practicing a piece to go with it to demonstrate to your townmates so that they can apprecialte the treasure you have there. Well at least you still have the real thing not the hybrids like the Rodges, Johannus and Ahlborn Galanti. Sino ang nag mementena ng organ nyo? Iwas contacted by Diego Cera (Bamboo Organ) at inaalok ako para sa church namin ng hybrids tipong electronic pero may option na ma expand mo later on to a pipe organ.
Keep it up, time to make kalkal sa mga scores mong nakatago ng malalim sa baul. Keep us updated on your success.:)

maj
09.07.02, 08:58 AM
whoooooaaa.....what a challenge! thanks, nlim...sige, i'l do my part regarding this...i can't find my organ pieces anymore...it's been 20 long years..if you may help me, just in case, please let me know where i can find some...or, we'l wait for the time when i can go to manila again....:)

titopao
09.07.02, 09:06 AM
whoooooaaa.....what a challenge! thanks, nlim...sige, i'l do my part regarding this...i can't find my organ pieces anymore...it's been 20 long years..if you may help me, just in case, please let me know where i can find some...or, we'l wait for the time when i can go to manila again....:)

Try visiting the IMSLP for public-domain scores (one of the links on my siggy, mostly pre-20th century pieces here). Here's the link to the category page for non-piano works :)

http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Piece_for_other_keyboards

Bach (all complete keyboard pieces), Buxtehude, Pachelbel, Mendelssohn, Brahms...name it, they have it. ;)

nlim
09.07.02, 11:44 AM
yan maj, pwede ka nang mag mina dito sa site na binigay ni tito pao kaya lang mamili ka ng maa-adapt mo for every occassion- mostly the tocatas are good for recessionals, preludes for communions and offertories. It will be a different service when you have this kind liturgical service - maninibago ang mga parishioners sa inyo and maaappreciate nila ang effort mo to revive your sleeping treasure sa church nyo.:)

nlim
09.07.02, 11:50 AM
maj,
kung mabababa ka ng Manila sa may Paterno sa may Quiapo :)yung Rhapsody Music Store - yun ang minahan namin ni Kumintang noong araw pa pati mga lumang kundiman mayroon sila. Doon ko nabili ang Anna Magdalena Notebook by JS BAch noon at mga hard to find scores.:)

titopao
09.07.02, 12:00 PM
And don't forget Lobregat...katabing-katabi lang 'yun ng Rhapsody ;)

maj
09.07.02, 01:11 PM
owww...so, buhay pa pala yun? i used to buy my pieces there, 50 lbs ago...hahaha...maraming salamat po...you know, i was driven to contact my colleagues and join the conservatory group because of this..titopao, i-pm mo naman po ako kung sino c ma-am chopinsky...i'm very eager to check if she is a "lost Friend"...actually, i tried to PM you yesterday but it is not allowed..thanks a lot again to all...Godbless:)

nlim
09.07.03, 07:23 AM
This is an excerpt from the July 2009 Vivace issue about the pipe organ

Vivace! 068 July 2009

Voluntaries

I attended a service the other day at which the organ was played by a first-class performer. He played a superb Voluntary which was accompanied by loud congregational chatter, the scraping of chairs and the general clatter of people leaving church. I found this highly distasteful and insulting.

The first thing that needs to be accepted is that the Voluntary is part of the service. However tempted people might be, they don't talk during the sermon! They listen to what the minister has to say. The Voluntary is just as much part of the service as the sermon. One of the problems of modern living is that music is relegated to the position of background noise. I find it extremely annoying when you hear great art reduced to the level of wallpaper. It's an insult to one of God's greatest gifts. Music should always be treated with respect.

Congregations need to be educated about the place and value of the Voluntary. They should be invited by the Minister to stay and listen. The title of the piece being played should be clearly announced and also included in the printed Order of Service.

The presiding minister and his assistants should stay while the Voluntary is being played. They should leave during the last page of the piece-- it's not a good idea for the procession to leave in silence. This is a case where "leadership by example" is essential.

The organist is a vital part of the service and the Voluntary is an individual expression of worship. It needs to be treated like this and listened to with respect. The Voluntary can be a great spiritual experience for the listener.

Let's show the organist consideration and listen to his offering. One might even consider applauding at its conclusion.



Colin Mawby KSG