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titopao
08.10.15, 06:44 PM
Apparently, lumampas pala ito sa aking radar :P Since I'm sure this is of interest to everyone, I've decided to share this information as a public service

The Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments---the Commission on Liturgy of all Commissions on Liturgy in the whole Church---has given its recognitio for the new English translation of the Holy Mass. The translation was deemed necessary because the present translation we are familiar with was deemed too unrelated to the original Latin text of the Mass.

The Roman Missal - New English Translation (information page) (http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/missalformation/index.shtml)
The Recognitio letter by Francis Cardinal Arinze (http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/missalformation/RecognitioLetter.pdf)
Complete text of the new English translation (http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/missalformation/OrdoMissaeWhiteBook.pdf)

What does the recognitio mean? That means that the present work of the committee assigned to do this retranslation---Bishop Rolando Tria Tirona, OCD, DD of the Diocese of Infanta (Quezon province) is a member---has gained the Vatican approval, and may likely be published intact in its present form with little changes (if any). As yet, there is no available information about the new translation in the CBCP website, but the text of the new translation is made freely available (for study purposes only) at the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) :) As stated, the PDF files of the new English translations are available on the link above (under "Parts of the Order of the Mass").

Per Cardinal Arinze, Dean of the Congregation (see the PDF copy of his letter on the link above), the new translation is binding, but is not yet to take effect immediately, the reason being that the Congregation has deemed it necessary to give time to everyone concerned---priests, deacons and laity---to prepare themselves for this change. Tatagalugin ko: ibig sabihin nito, kapag napagkasunduan na kung kailan gagamitin ang bagong translation na ito, ito na ang gagamitin sa pagmimisa sa wikang Ingles, bawal nang gamitin yung ginagamit natin ngayon.

Currently, there's no date---yet---on when the new translation will be used...but why wait for that date when we already have the translation with us? :D So don't panic, do take your time and study the new translations (memorize them, if you wish). Para at least, hindi na kayo mabibigla pag nagprint na sila ng new version ng Roman Missal in English in, say, 2009 or 2010 or whenever ;)

Please feel free to share this information---including all the links I provided---to anyone who might be interested, specially to members of commissions of liturgy in parishes where masses are said in English. Mas mabuting alam nilang lahat this early na mababago yung English translation ng Holy Mass habang maaga pa :)

Additional resources:
*Ten Questions on the Revised Translation (http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/missalformation/tenquestions.shtml) - the most important questions answered.
*Notes on the New Translation on the Roman Missal (http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/missalformation/transl
ating_notes.shtml) - also an FAQ
Principles of Translating the Roman Missal (http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/missalformation/translating_principles.shtml) - explains why it was translated, and what factors were considered
*[PDF File]Changes in the parts of the people (http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/missalformation/peoplesparts.pdf) - a must read!!! Contains the current text side by side with the new translation.
*[PDF File]Changes in the parts of priests (http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/missalformation/priestsparts.pdf) - not applicable to us laypersons, but may be of interest

Koenji
08.10.15, 10:29 PM
Thanks, titopao for sharing.

If ever some response songs will be changed using the revised texts like Kyrie, Glory to God, Sanctus and Acclamation. Should be considered by liturgical songs composers if they're planning to compose new response songs I think.

sjclc
08.10.15, 11:10 PM
Hmm. from what I've noticed parang Gloria lang yung nagkaroon ng major makeover. The other responses just had some very little changes and the Pater Noster was left unchanged.

titopao
08.10.15, 11:21 PM
Hmm. from what I've noticed parang Gloria lang yung nagkaroon ng major makeover. The other responses just had some very little changes and the Pater Noster was left unchanged.

This may seem trivial, but some of the "minor" changes---such as reverting "And also with you" to the pre-Vatican II "And with your spirit"---did cause a great stir in the US, even if it was just a short line.

I won't go over the details, but one of the criticisms I read said something like, bakit kailangan pang ibalik sa "old-style" na translation yung ibang parts ng mass.

Since the Congregation on the Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments already gave its approval, such criticisms will be rendered moot and academic :P

I doubt that they will even consider changing "Pater Noster". Otherwise, they might as well go all the way and retranslate the entire Bible, di ba? ;) hehehehehe

reksuyah
08.10.16, 01:20 AM
old style nga to... bakit kaya binalik yung dati? this gives me a feeling that our Church is moving backwards. Naandun na naman yung "mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa." kailangan bang i-highlight ang aking pagiging makasalanan? yun ang criticism ng ibang christian denomination sa ting Katoliko, we focus too much on our sinfulness. anyway, ano pa nga magagawa natin nandyan na.

Milliardo
08.10.16, 07:00 AM
This may seem trivial, but some of the "minor" changes---such as reverting "And also with you" to the pre-Vatican II "And with your spirit"---did cause a great stir in the US, even if it was just a short line.

I won't go over the details, but one of the criticisms I read said something like, bakit kailangan pang ibalik sa "old-style" na translation yung ibang parts ng mass.

It has a lot to do with the translation. A lot were not happy with the translation of "And also with you". I am not good in Latin, but the Latin has always been "And with your spirit". Even the Latin text of the Novus Ordo has it as "And with your spirit". When it was translated into English, for some reason it was changed to "And also with you". It also has much to do with the priest as representing Christ; in essence, to say, 'And with your spirit" means you are addressing it to Christ, not to the priest as it would be with "And also with you". Incidentally, in the Orthodox Church we still respond, "And with your spirit".

titopao
09.08.24, 02:28 PM
Heads up...the US Conference of Catholic Bishops put up a new website (http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal/) that has more information about the new English translation.

They also included a page including samples of the new translations for both the people's parts and the priests' parts. You can read all the samples through this link:

http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal/examples.shtml

I posted one sample (http://www.bukaspalad.com/board/showpost.php?p=99408&postcount=5) elsewhere (re Memorial Acclamation). Eto pa mga samples:


* GREETING
Current version
Priest: The Lord be with you.
People: And also with you.

New translation
Priest: The Lord be with you.
People: And with your spirit. et cum spirito tuo]



* EUCHARISTIC PREFACE
Current version
Priest: The Lord be with you.
People: And also with you.
Priest: Lift up your hearts.
People: We lift them up to the Lord.
Priest: Let us give thanks to the Lord our God.
People: It is right to give him thanks and praise.

New translation
Priest: The Lord be with you.
People: And with your spirit.
Priest: Lift up your hearts.
People: We lift them up to the Lord.
Priest: Let us give thanks to the Lord our God.
People: It is right and just.


* AGNUS DEI
Current version
Priest: This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
Happy are those who are called to his supper.

All: Lord, I am not worthy to receive you,
but only say the word and I shall be healed.

New translation
Priest: Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who takes away the sins of the world.
Blessed are those called to the supper of the Lamb.
All: Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof,
but only say the word and my soul shall be healed. (NB: New translation is actually taken from the Bible.)


According to the FAQ (http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal/faqs.shtml), wala pang set na date kung kailan ito magte-take effect. The examples are provided for catechetical purposes, and also to help priests, lay ministers and composers with regard to the changes (that is, para handa na sila). Kaya, 'wag mag-panic, hindi pa kaagad magbabago ang English mass...pero mas magandang alam na ninyo kaagad ang mga pagbabago para hindi kayo mabigla :P

knightdom
09.08.24, 02:52 PM
parang ganyan din kasi ang ginagamit sa tridentine mass (latin nga lang ang response), so i think tama na yan ang gamitin sa responses :)

i remember during the last supper part may responses din na:

"My Lord and My God" - pag tinaas yung Host

"Be mindful o Lord Thy creature whom You have redeemed by Your most precious blood" - pag tinaas yung cup

Emerald
09.08.24, 04:08 PM
bakit po kaya pabago.bago?

titopao
09.08.24, 04:22 PM
@Emerald: Ang thrust kasi ni Pope Benedict ay itama yung mga nakitang mga naging mali sa iba-ibang translation ng misa sa iba-ibang wika. Ilang taon na rin kasing napuna na marami sa mga ni-translate sa Ingles ay sobrang malayo sa orihinal nitong Latin. Ang totoo niyan, ilang taon na ring pinaghirapan ng mga pari, obispo at mga iskolar ang proyektong ito, ngayon lang sila nakapaglabas ng resulta.

Pero 'wag mag-alala, gaya nga ng sinabi sa website ng USCCB ay wala pa namang petsa kung kailan gagamitin ang bagong translation na ito. Hindi pa ito gagamitin kaagad. Nilabas lang ng ganito kaaga para ma-familiarize ang lahat ng mga tao sa mga gagawing pagbabago. Siguro, safe na'ng sabihin na hindi rin ito magagamit sa susunod na taon at maging sa isa pang taon siguro :)

Emerald
09.08.24, 07:42 PM
tnx po for that clarification titopao... hehehe xenxia na kau matanong lang kasi ako eh ehehehe

Alexander
09.08.25, 09:02 AM
Thanks for the link titopao.... eto rin yung mga samples
http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal/examples.shtml

Pati Nicene Creed texts mababago, hindi ko pa nga kabisado e hehehe

Pero siguro, ngayon pa lang maagap na ang mga composers na gawin ang mga bagong Liturgical Responses into music ;)

Any news sa ECLIT ng CBCP about changes in the English Mass?

titopao
09.08.25, 09:14 AM
Yan ang wala akong balita. (But then again, kailan ba naging timely ang CBCP sa pagpapalabas ng updates? :P ) Ang safest assumption ko is malamang yung new translations ay gagamitin din sa Pilipinas in the future. Yung new translation kasi na ito ay hindi lang naman mga US bishops ang gumawa, ito ay nilabas ng ICEL (International Committee for English in the Liturgy) na naka-base sa Vatican, at kung di ako nagkakamali ay member dito ang CBCP, kaya't expect na natin na magco-comply din naman ang CBCP sooner or later.

Pero, syempre, hindi pa kaagad. Nilabas lang ng maaga para hindi tayo magulat sa bagong translation ng misa :)

sjclc
09.08.30, 10:34 AM
Hm ano naman kaya ang magiging sagot ng mga Filipino composers and arrangers natin sa pagbabagong ito?

vic_romero
10.05.07, 02:21 PM
Last Thursday, April 29, the appropriate Vatican office gave its approval to the new English translation of the Roman Missal.

Please read an informative article by Bishop Trautman on the new translation here: http://www.uscatholic.org/translations

I joined the fans of the Facebook movement "What If We Just Said Wait". You can too:
Check it out:

http://www.whatifwejustsaidwait.org/

Sir Michael
10.07.13, 04:24 PM
Update lang po:

The English-speaking composers are already preparing for the new translation of the Roman Missal.
New mass setting are being created and the old ones are being revised, although all of these still need liturgical approval and are to be used upon the implementation of the new text.

Notably here is Dan Schutte's Mass of Christ the Savior and Christopher Walker's Mass of St. Paul the Apostle.
(Notably kasi baka mas kilala sila sa Philippines :D)

Previews from OCP can be found here:
http://www.ocp.org/newmasssettings

The new translation of the Roman Missal is expected to be ready for publication by late this year, but is still expected to be implemented by late next year (2011). Most probably its first use will be on November 27, 2011 (First sunday of Advent, liturgical year 2012).

More details can be found in the USCCB's site and the website of the Oregon Catholic Press for the new translation:
http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal/
http://www.ocp.org/newmasssettings/process

I wonder nga if the Filipino composers are prepping up for this, although wala pa atang balita from the CBCP if the Filipino liturgy is going to undergo revisions too. Pero sabi nga ni titopao, most probably.

How I hope that old Mass Sequence hymns will still be permitted to be sung. We have a lot of good ones, kahit na (or specially na) yung songs created by Filipinos.
Nangangarap lang :D

I think baka hindi na rin payagan, or if it is, revisions on the songs are to be done. Allowing it kasi would be counter-productive in the implementation of the new texts :D

titopao
10.07.14, 08:04 AM
@Sir Michael: Pupwede siguro, for as long as the texts are the same as the new, um, retranslations :) Since wala pa naman sa atin ang nakakahawak ng kumpletong kopya ng translation (dahil sa hindi pa nga ito nalilimbag), malalaman nating lahat sa takdang panahon :P

Sir Michael
10.07.14, 09:37 AM
Tama, tama, sa takdang panahon :D
Thanks titopao :)

vic_romero
10.07.14, 12:19 PM
Mayroon akong bagong komposisyon: Missa "Fides,"
pagsasatugtugin ng bagong salin ng Misa sa Ingles.
Hiniling ng isang parokya rito sa malapit sa akin.
Ibabahagi ko na rin sa inyo, kung may interes.

A capella SATB ang "Lord, Have Mercy" at "Lamb of God."
Ang "Glory to God" ay may mga bahaging a capella SATB,
may solo ng lalaki, may solo ng babae, may unison.
Ang "Alleluia," "Amen" at tatlong bagong Memorial Accalamation
ay maaaring a capella SATB at maaari ring unison.
Ginagawa pa ang Nicene Creed.

Kung interesado, magpunta lamang sa www.magsimba.com;
pindutin ang "Makipag-ugnay" sa menu.
Magpadala ng email na interesado kayo,
kasama ang buong pangalan,
pangalan ng inyong koro,
pangalan ng simbahan
at lungsod/bayan, at probinsya.

Para lamang sa mga patnugot ng koro ito.
Para lamang sa tunay na gagamit ng musika.
Ibibigay ko muna ang "Lamb of God."
Subukan ninyo.
Madaling matutunan.
Pangako.
Mayroong MP3 recording ng minus-one accompaniment,
kung sakaling makatutulong sa inyo.

Ipaki-record ang inyong pag-awit, at ipadala sa akin ang MP3.
Subukan ninyong may at walang accompaniment.
Ipadalang pareho sa akin, pag natapos.
Tignan natin.

Tapos susunod ang iba.

pat111
10.07.22, 04:47 PM
@Emerald: Ang thrust kasi ni Pope Benedict ay itama yung mga nakitang mga naging mali sa iba-ibang translation ng misa sa iba-ibang wika. Ilang taon na rin kasing napuna na marami sa mga ni-translate sa Ingles ay sobrang malayo sa orihinal nitong Latin. Ang totoo niyan, ilang taon na ring pinaghirapan ng mga pari, obispo at mga iskolar ang proyektong ito, ngayon lang sila nakapaglabas ng resulta.

Pero 'wag mag-alala, gaya nga ng sinabi sa website ng USCCB ay wala pa namang petsa kung kailan gagamitin ang bagong translation na ito. Hindi pa ito gagamitin kaagad. Nilabas lang ng ganito kaaga para ma-familiarize ang lahat ng mga tao sa mga gagawing pagbabago. Siguro, safe na'ng sabihin na hindi rin ito magagamit sa susunod na taon at maging sa isa pang taon siguro :)

Salamat po sa news! :)

pat111
10.07.22, 04:49 PM
Thanks for the link titopao.... eto rin yung mga samples
http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal/examples.shtml

Pati Nicene Creed texts mababago, hindi ko pa nga kabisado e hehehe


Napansin ko pong hindi madalas ginagamit ang Nicene Creed sa Pilipinas. Bakit po kaya?

vic_romero
10.08.21, 10:02 AM
The text of the new Missal is approved!


http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal/order-of-mass.pdf


Cardinal George Announces Vatican Approval of New Roman Missal English-Language Translation, Implementation Set for First Sunday of Advent 2011


WASHINGTON—Cardinal Francis George, OMI, Archbishop of Chicago and President of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB), has announced that the full text of the English-language translation of the Roman Missal, Third Edition, has been issued for the dioceses of the United States of America.

The text was approved by the Vatican, and the approval was accompanied by a June 23 letter from Cardinal Llovera Antonio Cañizares, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. The Congregation also provided guidelines for publication.

Sir Michael
10.08.21, 02:47 PM
Thanks for the post, Kuya Vic. Talagang updated tayo ah :D

I noticed that the translation of the prefaces accompanying the Eucharistic Prayers are also changed. Does that mean that all prefaces are also re-translated?

Sir Michael
10.08.21, 02:55 PM
Napansin ko pong hindi madalas ginagamit ang Nicene Creed sa Pilipinas. Bakit po kaya?

I'll make a guess...
Mahaba at mas mahirap I-memorize :D

I mean even in high schools Christian Living teachers are still struggling to make the students know and understand the Apostle's Creed, papaano pa kaya ang Nicene Creed.

And iyun din and usually na ini-re-recite sa rosary, which Pinoys love to pray to express their devotion to the Blessed Mother.

vic_romero
10.08.22, 10:33 PM
I'll make a guess...
Mahaba at mas mahirap I-memorize :D

I mean even in high schools Christian Living teachers are still struggling to make the students know and understand the Apostle's Creed, papaano pa kaya ang Nicene Creed.



Alam ninyo ang maganda tungkol sa Credo ng Nicea? Dinadasal ito ng halos lahat ng Kristiyano -- maging Katoliko o Protestante. Dahil ito ay napakatanda: ginawa ito noong 325 A.D. sa unang pagpupulong na pandaigdig ng mga obispo. Napakagandang pakinggang dasalin ito sa mga pagpupulong nga iba't-ibang mga simbahang Kristiyano. Maging Katoliko, Metodista, Luterano, Presbiteryano, Orthodox, o Episcopalian--iisa ang Credo nila.

Kaya dapat pag-aralan ng mga Pilipino ito. Nilalaman ng Credo ng Nicea ang buod ng ating pananampalataya.

titopao
10.08.23, 07:20 AM
@Sir Michael: Regarding the prefaces...yes, everything in the mass have been retranslated in English. Even the routine "The Lord be with you..." has been retranslated.

Regarding the creeds and also the new translation, I guess, mas kailangan pa ngang ipakalat ang kopya ng bagong salin ng Santa Misa bago pa ito opisyal na gamitin. This means we have 15 more months to study it :) At magkagayon man, ano ba ang makakapigil sa atin na mag-print ng kopya nito para ating mabasa habang hindi pa natin kabisado ito? ;)

Mas importante ding malaman ang mga pagbabagong ito sa mga parokyang may misa sa Ingles. Lalo na sa mga choir, dahil unang matatamaan nito yung mga sagot sa misa na kinakanta...ngayon pa lang, kailangan nang maghanap ng mga alternatibong kanta na akma sa bagong pagsasalin, para maging consistent sa bagong salin ng misa sa magiging epektibo sa Adbiyento 2011. (Kaysa naman mag-uumpisa pa lang maghanap ng kanta kapag 'yun na mismo ang ginagamit na pagsasalin, kaya nga nilalabas na ng ganito kaaga yung translation.)

Reminders to those who have just come across the topic: the new translation is for the English version of the mass. AFAIK, wala pang similar re-translation sa Tagalog or any other Philippine languages na gagawin. Kaya kung hindi Ingles ang misa na ginagamit n'yo sa parokya ninyo...wala kayong dapat ikabahala. Sa ngayon. :)

Sir Michael
10.08.25, 03:19 PM
For those who want to be updated and and be familiar with the new and revised settings to be published by the Oregon Catholic Press and GIA Publications:

OCP:
New Mass Settings (http://www.ocp.org/newmasssettings/newsettings)
Revised Mass Settings (http://www.ocp.org/newmasssettings/revisedsettings)

GIA:
New Mass Settings (http://www.giamusic.com/sacred_music/new_mass_settings.cfm)
Revised Mass Settings (http://www.giamusic.com/sacred_music/revised_mass_settings.cfm)

Some of the more familiar ones such as Owen Alstott's Heritage Mass, Christopher Walker's Celtic Mass, and David Haas' Mass of Light were revised and their melodies retained.
You can stream and hear the new songs free of charge.

Sir Michael
10.09.04, 04:52 PM
Mga mods baka pwede na rin po nating I-merge ang post ni Kuya Vic dito:
http://bukaspalad.com/board/showthread.php?t=7787

Thanks :)

Alexander
11.01.10, 11:14 AM
You can download here the latest texts (and chants)
http://www.icelweb.org/musicfolder/openmusic.php

Just scroll down to the "Order of the Mass"

charlemagne_sd7
11.02.13, 12:25 PM
It might be implemented soon diba? Kung ndi pa this Advent 2011, next year pa kaya posible?

charlemagne_sd7
11.02.13, 12:34 PM
Is this New Translated will be use around the whole Catholic Church simultaneously? Just for a clarification...


The text of the new Missal is approve
http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal/order-of-mass.pdf


Cardinal George Announces Vatican Approval of New Roman Missal English-Language Translation, Implementation Set for First Sunday of Advent 2011


WASHINGTON—Cardinal Francis George, OMI, Archbishop of Chicago and President of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB), has announced that the full text of the English-language translation of the Roman Missal, Third Edition, has been issued for the dioceses of the United States of America.

The text was approved by the Vatican, and the approval was accompanied by a June 23 letter from Cardinal Llovera Antonio Cañizares, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. The Congregation also provided guidelines for publication.

Sir Michael
11.02.13, 12:38 PM
The announcement was made only for the Dioceses of the United States of America.

In Canada for example, the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops are looking at Lent 2012 as the time of implementation.

I wonder what the Philippine Bishops have decided.

Alexander
11.02.14, 03:06 PM
Kausap ko ang PP namin last weekend, sa amin sisimulan sa Parish sa Pentecost 2011, pero unti-unti. Sisimulan sa mga songs muna. Then by Advent 2011, fully implemented kahit recited man or sung ang parts.

jasfgomez
11.02.18, 03:45 PM
Good p.m.,

Ano po ba 'yon title ng thread na tungkol sa
new order of the mass?
Nakita ko na dito pero nakalimutan ko.
Thanks for the help.

Alexander
11.02.20, 02:35 PM
Merged the thread for you jasfgomez

jasfgomez
11.02.20, 03:52 PM
Feb. 20, 2011

Thanks for the help, Sir Alexander.



Alexander: Please use the THANKS button next time ha.... spam post kasi ang Thank You message ngayon e.

jon2406
11.02.23, 02:22 PM
I wonder if the Arch Diocese of Manila will be able to comply with the Advent 2011 Transition to the New Roman Missal. Honestly, it is only here in the message board that I was able to learn of the transition that will be made in our English Masses. I hope that the CBCP will start an information campaign as early as now, so that people are made aware of this. :)

unbreakable
11.02.25, 12:29 AM
Sa amin nag start na yong newly edited responses last Sunday... daming nagtaka kasi di nila alam at di nila nabalitaan...

Alexander
11.02.25, 06:38 AM
Dapat para hindi sila nagtaka ay merong mga newsletter or announcement tungkol dito. You wouldn't want your parishioners in the dark kaya dapat laging at pace sila at hindi naiiwanan.

vic_romero
11.02.25, 06:50 AM
Sa amin nag start na yong newly edited responses last Sunday... daming nagtaka kasi di nila alam at di nila nabalitaan...

Kung totoo iyan, hindi yata tamang gawin iyan.
Hindi dapat biglain ang mga tao.
Dapat bigyan muna na katekesis tungkol sa bagong salin ng Misa.

At isa pa, pustahan tayo (kahit maliit lang ang pusta ko), walang permiso ang ginawang iyon, o kaya eksperimento lamang. Kasi ang mga ganiyang bagay ay dapat manggaling sa CBCP. Ibinigay ng Vaticano ang recognitio o pagpapatibay sa bagong salin sa bawat pambansang panayam ng mga obispo.

Sa USA, sa unang linggo ng Pagdating 2011 magsisimulang gamitin. Nauna na ang New Zealand (iyon ang gusto ng kanilang mga obispo). Susunod ang Ireland. Tapos Canada. Yamang walang lumalabas na bilin o utos ang CBCP, ibig sabihin, hindi pa handa ang Pilipinas. Kaya kung anuman ang ginawa sa San Jacinto noong Linggo ay eksperimento lamang o talagang bawal (at di dapat ulitin, upang hindi mabigla at malito ang mga tao).

mike1314
11.02.25, 10:32 AM
Sa Parish namin lagi inaanounce sa misa na starting on March 9 ( Ash Wednesday ) mag-uumpisa ang implementation pero paunti-unti muna. Pag Sunday Mass itinuturo na sa mga nagsisimba iyong mga response nila para hindi naman sila mabigla.
Napansin ko lang na iyong ibang responses ay parehas din sa ginagamit namin sa Latin Tridentine Mass... halimbawa:
P: The Lord be with you. ( Dominus vobiscum )
A: And with your spirit ( et cum spiritu tuo )

... hindi ko pa nabasa iyong buong changes pero ito iyong isa sa mga itinuturo na sa mga nagsisimba.:)

titopao
11.02.25, 10:36 AM
Dapat ay isumbong sa arso-/obispo ang nasabing parokya. Masyadong mabigat na pagbabago ito na hindi dapat ginagawa nang hindi sinasang-ayunan maski ng obispo man lang ng nasabing parokya, kundi man ng CBCP. Maswerte tayong mga Onliners kasi kahit papaano'y hindi tayo nahuhuli sa mga balita tungkol sa liturhiya, pero papaano yung mga hindi naman nago-online katulad natin? O kaya'y paano yung mga nasa mga komisyon ng liturhiya ng bawat parokya na hindi nakapagbabasa ng mga pinakahuling balita tungkol sa mga ganitong uri ng pagbabago?

Yamang walang lumalabas na bilin o utos ang CBCP, ibig sabihin, hindi pa handa ang Pilipinas.

Dalawang bagay lang ang nakikita ko: either hindi pa handa, o di kaya'y ayaw talagang sumunod ng mga iginagalang na obispo ng CBCP.

Case in point: Summorum pontificum (http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/04/card-castrillon-corrects-card-rosales-archd-manila-on-summorum-pontificum/). Ang sinasabing "clarification" na nilabas ng Archdiocese ng Manila ay salungat sa isinasaad sa Summorum pontificum (http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/02/archd-of-manila-on-summorum-pontificum/), kung kaya't nagalit ang pinuno ng Komisyon ng Ecclessia Dei sa gayong kautusan na nilagdaan ni Cardinal Rosales. (Sa hindi malamang kadahilanan ay tinanggal din ang nasabing "clarifications" sa website ng Archdiocese of Manila matapos na lumabas ang maraming mga batikos.)

Hindi ako magtataka kung kalaunan ay hindi gagamitin dito sa Pilipinas ang bagong pagsasalin sa Ingles ng Banal na Misa. Kung gagamitin din naman ito, salamat at nangyari din, at dapat na pag-aralan nating mga naglilingkod sa misa. Ngunit kung hindi...hindi ako magtataka ???

titopao
11.02.25, 11:40 AM
Napansin ko lang na iyong ibang responses ay parehas din sa ginagamit namin sa Latin Tridentine Mass... halimbawa:
P: The Lord be with you. ( Dominus vobiscum )
A: And with your spirit ( et cum spiritu tuo )

Kung mukhang hindi naiiba sa Tridentine mass ang mga "bagong" salin, iyan ay dahil sa sinusubukang ibalik ng bagong pagsasalin na ito ang tunay na kahulugan ng orihinal na Latin :) Eto ang isang obviously literal na English translation ng Latin:

Dominus vobiscum
Lord you-with
[NB. Walang articles ang Latin gaya ng "a", "an" at "the", kung kaya't ito ay kailangang idagdag sa pagsasalin]

Et cum spiritum tuum
And with spirit you


Eto, i-download mo ang bagong English translation dito (http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal/order-of-mass.pdf) ;)

jon2406
11.02.25, 12:15 PM
I agree with Bro. Vic and Titopao. There is a proper protocol that is being followed in implementing changes in any form in our church here in the Philippines. This change in the Roman Missal not only covers the way we respond in the mass but also affect the teachings and the books that should reflect this changes in the English Mass.

I salute the parishes that started to Inform their congregation of the changes. However, they should wait for their respective diocese as to when they should Officially start using the new format.:)

PS. The new format affected the songs for Gloria, Sanctus and Mystery of Faith. Researching and Practicing these songs should be easy. The hard part is having it approved by the diocese for implementation. Therefore, we should prepare the approved songs as soon as possible, so that we are ready to use them, once our respective diocese implements the new mass format.

titopao
11.02.25, 12:22 PM
Just an update: apparently, hindi lang sa parokya nila mike ginagamit ang bagong English translation. Archbishop Socrates Villegas (Lingayen-Dagupan) ordered all liturgical ministers under his helm to teach the new translation to the faithful in his archdiocese (http://www.lingayen-dagupan.org/CircularLetters/circular2011_4.html) :)

You may think that perhaps Archbishop Soc could have waited for the CBCP to act on this but, in fact, it is within his authority to do this. Buti pa ang mga Pangasinense :P hehehe

jon2406
11.02.25, 12:35 PM
Just an update: apparently, hindi lang sa parokya nila mike ginagamit ang bagong English translation. Archbishop Socrates Villegas (Lingayen-Dagupan) ordered all liturgical ministers under his helm to teach the new translation to the faithful in his archdiocese (http://www.lingayen-dagupan.org/CircularLetters/circular2011_4.html) :)

You may think that perhaps Archbishop Soc could have waited for the CBCP to act on this but, in fact, it is within his authority to do this. Buti pa ang mga Pangasinense :P hehehe

I think I will have a little chat with my parish priest here in the chapel I am serving to know if the Diocese of Cubao are making any preparations for the transition.

mike1314
11.02.26, 01:02 PM
old style nga to... bakit kaya binalik yung dati? this gives me a feeling that our Church is moving backwards. Naandun na naman yung "mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa." kailangan bang i-highlight ang aking pagiging makasalanan? yun ang criticism ng ibang christian denomination sa ting Katoliko, we focus too much on our sinfulness. anyway, ano pa nga magagawa natin nandyan na.

There is wrong with these, reksuyah.. hindi ba't ito ang dinadasal ng mga naging Santo natin?

unbreakable
11.02.26, 07:31 PM
Kung totoo iyan, hindi yata tamang gawin iyan.
Hindi dapat biglain ang mga tao.
Dapat bigyan muna na katekesis tungkol sa bagong salin ng Misa.

At isa pa, pustahan tayo (kahit maliit lang ang pusta ko), walang permiso ang ginawang iyon, o kaya eksperimento lamang. Kasi ang mga ganiyang bagay ay dapat manggaling sa CBCP. Ibinigay ng Vaticano ang recognitio o pagpapatibay sa bagong salin sa bawat pambansang panayam ng mga obispo.

Sa USA, sa unang linggo ng Pagdating 2011 magsisimulang gamitin. Nauna na ang New Zealand (iyon ang gusto ng kanilang mga obispo). Susunod ang Ireland. Tapos Canada. Yamang walang lumalabas na bilin o utos ang CBCP, ibig sabihin, hindi pa handa ang Pilipinas. Kaya kung anuman ang ginawa sa San Jacinto noong Linggo ay eksperimento lamang o talagang bawal (at di dapat ulitin, upang hindi mabigla at malito ang mga tao).


Kuya ito na sagot ko:


Just an update: apparently, hindi lang sa parokya nila mike ginagamit ang bagong English translation. Archbishop Socrates Villegas (Lingayen-Dagupan) ordered all liturgical ministers under his helm to teach the new translation to the faithful in his archdiocese (http://www.lingayen-dagupan.org/CircularLetters/circular2011_4.html) :)

You may think that perhaps Archbishop Soc could have waited for the CBCP to act on this but, in fact, it is within his authority to do this. Buti pa ang mga Pangasinense :P hehehe


Kabilang po parokya namin sa Archdiocese of Lingayen-Dagupan, :D Kaso di kami na-inform about it.

jon2406
11.02.28, 10:03 AM
Spoke with my parish priest yesterday and found out that they have not discussed about these changes yet.:) That could only mean that CBCP or the archdiocese have not yet coordinated the changes to the other diocese here in the Philippines.:)

J O J I T
11.03.13, 11:18 AM
Kailan po ba sisimulan sa Pinas ang Roman Missal? Dito sinisimulan na at medyo hindi ako pabor. Paano kaya maaapektuhan ang mga responses sa misa especially yung mga kanta?

reksuyah
11.03.13, 10:45 PM
Depende sa diocese kung kailan nila sisimulan.
sinimulan na sa Diocese ng Lingayen-Dagupan ngayong panahon ng kuwaresma. Binanggit daw sa Misa nung nagsimba siya sa Manaoag. hindi ko lang alam kung kailan sisimulan sa Archdiocese of Manila.

Alexander
11.03.14, 12:26 PM
Kailan po ba sisimulan sa Pinas ang Roman Missal? Dito sinisimulan na at medyo hindi ako pabor. Paano kaya maaapektuhan ang mga responses sa misa especially yung mga kanta?

Jojit, ibig sabihin nito ay merong bagong mga music for the new translation at meron din naman na mga dati pang music pero revised na ang words.

For more info on the "recommended new and revised Mass Setting", follow this link:

http://willowconnection.com.au/pdfs/catalogues/mass_settings_REV.pdf

jon2406
11.03.14, 09:06 PM
Depende sa diocese kung kailan nila sisimulan.
sinimulan na sa Diocese ng Lingayen-Dagupan ngayong panahon ng kuwaresma. Binanggit daw sa Misa nung nagsimba siya sa Manaoag. hindi ko lang alam kung kailan sisimulan sa Archdiocese of Manila.

I think that they are just preparing the diocese of Lingayen-Dagupan for the changes that will eventually be used by all churches here in Manila. But as long as their are no formal instruction coming from the Archdiocese of Manila and as long as the misallettes are still using the present form, then I don't think that any diocese could just simply change the format of the masses let alone be implemented.

Just think about it, that this changes will have a big impact not only on the choices of songs for the choirs, but also the changes to be done on the printed missals, misallettes, instructions for catechisms, teaching the new responses to the parishioners, even to the point of translating these changes into Tagalog and to the rest of the different dialects here in the Philippines...etc. These things needed time, resources,planning and coordination. So the decision as to when this transition will happen, will all depend on our eminence Cardinal Rosales. Remember always that there is a proper protocol that is being followed here. No diocese can implement such changes without the approval of the Archdiocese of Manila.:)

titopao
11.03.14, 09:41 PM
Just think about it, that this changes will have a big impact not only on the choices of songs for the choirs, but also the changes to be done on the printed missals, misallettes, instructions for catechisms, teaching the new responses to the parishioners, even to the point of translating these changes into Tagalog and to the rest of the different dialects here in the Philippines...etc. These things needed time, resources,planning and coordination. So the decision as to when this transition will happen, will all depend on our eminence Cardinal Rosales. Remember always that there is a proper protocol that is being followed here. No diocese can implement such changes without the approval of the Archdiocese of Manila.:)

No...the Archdiocese of Manila does not have jurisdiction over the Archdiocese of Lingayen-Dagupan. To begin with, Dagupan-Lingayen is not a suffragan diocese of Manila, and even if it were the case, Canon Law does not give Cardinal Rosales any such function of power (see Canon 436 s. 3. (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P1J.HTM)) As far as Canon Law is concerned, they're on the same footing. Which means...

* ...the Archbishop of Lingayen-Dagupan can do as it pleases, without having to wait for the Archbishop of Manila to do any similar measure.
* ...Archbishop Villegas does not need the approval of Cardinal Rosales. Insofar as archdioceses are concerned, they're just equals.

And Cardinal Rosales's title as Cardinal (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P19.HTM) does not give him an additional power over any bishop or archbishop in the Philippines. Nothing in the Code of Canon Law gives any cardinal that kind of power (Can. 357): the sole "power", if any, of a Cardinal is #1.to elect a new pope whenever the Seat of Rome has been declared in sede vacante, and #2.to act as advisers and helpers of the Pope in certain matters. No more, no less.

So...yes, Archbishop Soc can. In this light, Archbishop Villegas has the right and the prerogative to implement the new translations over his own archdiocese as he sees fit (with the proper catechetical orientation, as he has also ordered); he is under no obligation to ask the permission of another archbishop or bishop, not even Cardinal Rosales.

If you're not from one of the parishes covered by the Archdiocese of Lingayen-Dagupan and the clergy in your arch-/diocese isn't aware of the new translations or of any directive from the CBCP, then it simply means...the clergy of your diocese isn't aware of it, or haven't discussed it. Labas na sila doon sa mga goings-on sa Lingayen-Dagupan, it's up to the arch-/bishop of your arch-/diocese to decide if and when they will obey Rome and implement the new changes that are applicable for the English masses only. (Which they should be doing anyway. If not this year, then in the coming years dapat.)

Personally, I'm doubtful that the CBCP isn't aware of it. A couple of Philippine bishops have been members of the Vatican's Vox Clara commission which planned this new retranslation, whicn means that, in one way or another, some Philippine bishops (if not all) were aware of the plans to redo the English translation of the mass as early as three years ago. It's up to the CBCP to further disseminate this development, enjoin other bishops to discuss the matter, and ensure that this will be soon implements across all Philippine arch/dioceses. Which they should.

(insert sarcastic smile here :P )

Alexander
11.03.18, 09:49 AM
These FAQ (http://www.catholic.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1903&Itemid=440)s may apply to Australia (only), but can be helpful in someway....

http://www.catholic.org.au/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=1109

You can also Download a copy of the new order of the mass on this link

http://www.catholic.org.au/index.php?option=com_docman&Itemid=451

Plus.... download the "Assembly Format" for the simple chant mass

http://www.catholic.org.au/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=1075

pat111
11.04.17, 08:26 AM
old style nga to... bakit kaya binalik yung dati? this gives me a feeling that our Church is moving backwards. Naandun na naman yung "mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa." kailangan bang i-highlight ang aking pagiging makasalanan? yun ang criticism ng ibang christian denomination sa ting Katoliko, we focus too much on our sinfulness. anyway, ano pa nga magagawa natin nandyan na.

Within the Church, there is no such thing as 'moving backwards'. The Church is, as St. Augustine put it, "ever ancient and ever new."

Tsaka ano po naman ang masama sa pagaamin na tayo'y mga makasalanan na kinakailangang patawarin? Di ba't ito ang pinapahayag ni Hesus - na dumating hindi "upang tumawag ng mga matuwid, kundi ng mga makasalanan" - na "kayo'y mangagsisi, at magsisampalataya sa Ebanghelyo?" On the contrary, sa tingin ko ay masyado naman nating idina-downplay ngayon ang kasalanan. We're forgetting how such a grave matter sin is.

Why would we need to listen to everything that other people are saying about us and bow down to every concession? As Catholics we have a faith and spirituality of our own.

sjclc
11.04.17, 10:28 PM
I don't think na magbabago ang translations ng Tagalog masses with the implementation of this new English missal (if ever it gets implemented :P). Ang teorya ko lang naman na hindi ko mabibigyang pruweba dahil wala akong dokumentong maipapakita eh dahil lahat ng pagsasalin na ginawa sa Novus Ordo ay isinalin direkta mula sa orihinal na Latin. (In simple terms, hindi naman kinuha ang Tagalog translation ng misa sa English translation para maapektuhan ito ng pagbabago.)

Halimbawa:
Matagal na nating ginagamit ang mga linyang into sa Gloria:
"Papuri sa Diyos sa kaitaasan at sa lupa'y kapayapaan sa mga taong may mabuting kalooban."

Samantang ang English translation naman dati ay:
"Glory to God in the highest and peace to His people on earth."

Ang orihinal na tekstong Latin ay:
"Gloria in excelsis Deo, et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis."

na kapag sinalin sa Ingles ay:
"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to men of good will."

Mapapansin natin na mas malapit sa orihinal na Latin ang saling Tagalog (maski na sabihin pa natin na "kinalulugdan niya" ang ginamit imbes na "may mabuting kalooban") kumpara sa kasalukuyang ginagamit na Ingles.

vic_romero
11.04.18, 11:02 PM
I don't think na magbabago ang translations ng Tagalog masses with the implementation of this new English missal (if ever it gets implemented :P).

. . .

(In simple terms, hindi naman kinuha ang Tagalog translation ng misa sa English translation para maapektuhan ito ng pagbabago.)



Dominus vobiscum.
Et cum spiritu tuo.

Sumainyó ang Panginoón. The Lord be with you.
At sumaiyó rin. And also with you.

Sumainyó ang Panginoón. The Lord be with you.
? At kasama ang iyóng espíritu. ? And with your spirit.

titopao
11.04.19, 11:46 AM
@Kuya Vic: Close enough, pwede na rin :) Bagama't kailangan natin sigurong sumangguni sa mga pinakaunang salin ng banal na misa sa wikang Tagalog, kung di ako nagkakamali ay mayroon nang naunang pagsasalin ng "et cum spiritum tuum" doon.


@sjclc: Depende kung may nakikitang pangangailan sa pagu-update ang mga komisyon ng CBCP na nangangasiwa sa mga pagsasalin ng liturhiya. Na sa tingin ko ay mukhang malabong-malabo sa ngayon, given yung priorities ng CBCP.

Yung sa English naman kasi...noong 2001 pa inilabas ng Vatican ang instruction Liturgiam Authentiam, na siyang nag-udyok sa komite ng English-language liturgy sa Vatican na magsagawa ng re-evaluation at re-translation ng mass. 2002 pa talaga nagsimula ang pagtatrabaho ng binuong Vox Clara Commission, at noong mga bandang 2009-2010 nila in-announce (nang paunti-unti) na natapos na nila ang binagong English translation. Na sa tingin naman ng ibang mga tao na hindi gaanong nakakaalam na kesyo "ginulat" daw ng Vatican ang madla, o kaya ay ito daw ay "a step backward". (Na hindi naman talaga paatras na hakbangin, given yung mga isinasaad na rason ng Liturgiam Authentiam.)

So far...English pa lang (yata) ang lengwaheng sumunod sa mga ipinagbibilin ng Liturgiam Authentiam, ngunit iyan din ay dahil sa matagal nang pinupuna ng ilang mga eksperto ang mga kalabuan sa nakasanayan na nating English translation ng misa. Hindi ako magtataka kung hindi pa naman nakikita ng mga komisyon sa Tagalog, Cebuano, Espanol, Deutsch o maging ng Mandarin o Swahili ang pangangailangan ng pagsasalin. Although maganda rin kung magdo-double check sila para lang makasiguro :P

knightdom
11.06.23, 08:31 PM
Oo nga, dito sa Abu Dhabi start na implementation sa 26 November 2011 (1st Sunday of Advent) for the English Mass. But for the Tagalog Mass, we will depend sa changes from Philippines.

sjclc
11.06.23, 10:28 PM
Update from the CBCP: http://www.cbcpnews.com/?q=node/15934

Adaptation in the Philippines begins Dec. 2, 2012, First Sunday of Advent 2012. A primer has also been prepared for catechesis. Sana nga lang bukod sa translations maging aware din ang mga tao sa tunay na kahulugan ng mga salitang binabanggit sa Santa Misa.

jon2406
11.06.24, 10:30 AM
Update from the CBCP: http://www.cbcpnews.com/?q=node/15934

Adaptation in the Philippines begins Dec. 2, 2012, First Sunday of Advent 2012. A primer has also been prepared for catechesis. Sana nga lang bukod sa translations maging aware din ang mga tao sa tunay na kahulugan ng mga salitang binabanggit sa Santa Misa.

Here is the Excerpt taken from the recommendation page of
"The New English Translation of the Roman Missal: A Catechetical Primer"
by Father Anscar Chupungco, OSB

The Bishops of the Philippines at its plenary assembly in January 2011 voted for the adoption of the New English Translation of the Roman Missal. Following this the Bishops requested that a written material be produced that would tackle in a serious, explanatory and catechetical manner this new liturgical development in the Church.

The task of writing this serious material fell on the extremely capable hands of Fr. Anscar Chupungco, OSB, director of the Paul VI Institute of the Liturgy in Malaybalay, Bukidnon, and a, if not the, foremost expert on liturgy in our country today. He also served for a long time as executive secretary of the Episcopal Commission on Liturgy of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of the Philippines (CBCP).

Following this request Father Anscar has produced this Primer and in his true fashion has infused it with depth and clarity. This Primer not only takcles the technical and literal aspects of the new translation, but also provides insightful and applicable reflections on how it can enhance and nourish our spiritual life. It offers the faithful a guide for meaningful celebration of the Holy Eucharist.

The new translation comes into effect in the Philippines on the first Sunday of Advent 2012 (December 2, 2012). This Primer will be a handy and useful tool for Diocesan Directors of Liturgy, Parish Priests, Worship coordinators and the lay faithful for implementing the change and adapting to it. We thus encourage all of you to have a copy of the Primer in preparation for the implementation and also as a valuable reference material.

We hope for your continued support for the Commission on Liturgy and we pray that we will always be ready to respond to the prompting of the spirit to make our Church ever new and ever true.

Fr. Genaro O. Diwa, SLL
Executive Secretary,
Episcopal Commission on Liturgy

:)

titopao
11.06.24, 08:18 PM
So it's official na...time to update those Powerpoint slides as well :P hehehe

In a way, maswerte pa rin tayo kasi we have more than a year to prepare for this...sa US, one year lang ang binigay sa mga simbahan. At least we have an extra year (more or less) before we can implement this :)

JR Medina
11.06.25, 03:56 PM
The task of writing this serious material fell on the extremely capable hands of Fr. Anscar Chupungco, OSB, director of the Paul VI Institute of the Liturgy in Malaybalay, Bukidnon, and a, if not the, foremost expert on liturgy in our country today. He also served for a long time as executive secretary of the Episcopal Commission on Liturgy of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of the Philippines (CBCP).

Following this request Father Anscar has produced this Primer and in his true fashion has infused it with depth and clarity. This Primer not only takcles the technical and literal aspects of the new translation, but also provides insightful and applicable reflections on how it can enhance and nourish our spiritual life. It offers the faithful a guide for meaningful celebration of the Holy Eucharist.

:)

To add to these credentials, Fr. Anscar edited Ordo 2011....

Does anybody have a copy of the primer? Yesterday nilaunch daw ito sa San Carlos Sem

titopao
11.06.25, 08:43 PM
To add to these credentials, Fr. Anscar edited Ordo 2011....

He always does, by default, kasi the Ordo is published by the CBCP.

Although I know that there are some people who are not very happy with how Fr. Anscar runs things as head of the NLC.

No comment muna ako tungkol diyan :P hehehe. Let's see how our local implementation of the new English translation will work out in the coming months.

Alexander
11.07.19, 01:37 PM
I just thought of sharing this link....

http://www.melbourne.catholic.org.au/evangelisation/links/music-links.html

You'll find useful links for the following:
- Revised Ministerial Chants
- Recording of Chants in Revised Roman Missal
- New Mass Settings
- Revised Mass Settings
- Other setting available in the English-speaking world.

knightdom
11.07.25, 02:35 PM
teka, so English and Tagalog Mass na ang babaguhin o mauuna muna ang English Mass?

@titopao - oo nga. kelangan na i-update. :)

titopao
11.07.25, 03:08 PM
teka, so English and Tagalog Mass na ang babaguhin o mauuna muna ang English Mass?

The initiative for the retranslation of the English mass was done by the ICEL, so all episcopal conferences (i.e. countries) that uses English (including the Philippines) are expected to use the new translations. Take note that in the US and Canada, they will be using it beginning Advent this year.

As for Tagalog, no such initiative has been done by the CBCP...so far. Nor was a retranslation ordered by the Vatican...so far. Kaya't ibig sabihin, hindi apektado ang misa sa Tagalog. For that matter, hindi apektado ang misa sa iba-ibang mga wikang Pilipino :)

Kaya kung ang misa sa ninyo ay hindi sa wikang Ingles, wala kayong dapat alalahanin 8)

* * * * *

And, again, just to remind everyone: in the Philippines, we'll be officially using it in Advent 2012. So we have plenty of time to study and to familiarize ourselves with the new (re)translations and (whenever applicable) to compose new mass responses that are consistent with the updated translations. Since the translations are available on various sources online, I'd advise you to download it and study it pending the CBCP's issuing the translations with adaptations for the Philippines. Mas mabuti na ang handa ;)

Alexander
11.07.25, 06:15 PM
Yung Parish Priest namin na Pinoy, umuwi sya sa Pinas and he attended an English Mass sa isang Shrine sa Bulacan (baka alam mo ito titopao).... Nagulat daw sya at ginagamit na ang Revised Text.... at bilib na bilib sya dahil parang matagal na itong ini-implement...

Tinanong nga nya kung gaano na katagal itong ginagawa, ang sabi daw ay mga 2 months na.... tapos ang sabi pa daw sa kanya (PP) na sa Australia pa daw nila nga nalaman ang bagong translation... sabi nya dito sa aming parish, di pa ito nasisimulan (last Sunday lang)...

Bilib talaga ako sa mga kababayan natin....

titopao
11.07.26, 07:53 AM
Yung Parish Priest namin na Pinoy, umuwi sya sa Pinas and he attended an English Mass sa isang Shrine sa Bulacan (baka alam mo ito titopao).... Nagulat daw sya at ginagamit na ang Revised Text.... at bilib na bilib sya dahil parang matagal na itong ini-implement...

Dadalawa lang naman (yata) ang shrines sa Bulacan:

--- the National Shrine of the Divine Mercy in Sta. Rosa, Marilao, Bulacan
--- National Shrine of St. Anne (the Virgin Mary's mother) in Hagonoy.

Tatlo kung isasama yung:

--- National Shrine of Our Lady of Fatima in Valenzuela City (which is still part of the Diocese of Malolos).

Unfortunately, di ko alam kung ano dito yung mga shrines na may English mass, since hindi ako nagagawi sa mga simbahang ito :P hehehe.

Ang alam ko, kung ginagawa na jan sa inyo sa Australia, "soft opening" kumbaga yung paggamit ng new translations. Kasi, as in the US and Canada, sa Advent pa talaga siya required (i.e. bawal nang gamitin yung 1969 translation).

d0d0fer
11.07.28, 11:56 AM
From Fr. Joel Rescober, CM:

Starting Advent of 2012, the Catholic Church in the Philippines will be adopting the New English Translation of the Roman Missal. Of course, our liturgical music scene would be affected very much by the changes. The USA and UK will start using the New Missal this Advent, thus they have prepared music using the new translation. Here are some Mass settings from Fr. Ricky Manalo, CSP, a Fil-American Paulist priest.

Mass of Spirit and Grace Mass Setting by Ricky Manalo, CSP (http://youtu.be/2QlphCklrKo)

2QlphCklrKo

Alexander
11.07.28, 02:30 PM
d0d0fer,

If you like you can create a new thread sa Liturgical Song Discussion (http://bukaspalad.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=32&daysprune=-1&order=desc&sort=lastpost) similar to these threads


Mass of Creation (Revised Setting) - Marty Haugen (http://bukaspalad.com/board/showthread.php?t=8747)
Mass of St Francis (Revised Settings) - Paul Taylor (http://bukaspalad.com/board/showthread.php?t=8695)
Celtic Mass (Revised Setting) - Christopher Walker (http://bukaspalad.com/board/showthread.php?t=8749)
Heritage Mass (Revised Setting) - Owen Alstott (http://bukaspalad.com/board/showthread.php?t=8748)

d0d0fer
11.07.28, 06:23 PM
OK, I will create a thread "Mass of Spirit and Grace (New Setting) - Ricky Manalo" at the Liturgical Song Discussion section. Thanks for the suggestion, Alex. :)

J O J I T
11.08.03, 05:44 PM
Dito sa amin start na ginagamit ang new roman missal. bago na lahat ng responses even sa mga songs...ang binigay sa amin na songs na are from the Glendalough Mass CD. Maganda naman arrangement ng mga songs at medyo may pagka-BP ang tunog kaya medyo hindi nakakawalang gana..well anyway, sana maayos dyan..so far dito ok naman..depende pa din sa parish priest..sa ibang parish dito, pati ang voicing pinagbawal..parang bumalik sila sa vatican 1. hehe

Alexander
11.08.08, 10:02 AM
depende pa din sa parish priest..sa ibang parish dito, pati ang voicing pinagbawal..parang bumalik sila sa vatican 1. hehe

Astig.... pinagbawal pati voicing.... you mean, ginawang chant lahat ng response nyo?

Dito naman, we self regulated muna at walang voicing hanggat di natututunan ng congregation ang tono.... tapos pag alam na nila, tsaka namin aaralin ang harmony, pero di naman binabawal :P

Mismo nga mga cantors and choirs; last time kami nagmeet, nagkakagulo pa rin sa tono... hehehe... we're using the revised "Mass of Creation" by Marty Haugen

titopao
11.08.08, 10:32 AM
Or---perhaps this is the more logical way of putting it---baka naman ang goal ay para masanay muna ang congregation sa main melody ng mga bagong settings. At least, in the first few months of the implementation. That way, makakasabay na talaga sila sa pag-awit kahit na magkaroon na ng full choral voicings sa mga susunod na misa :P

Alexander
11.08.08, 02:14 PM
Correct.... yan din ang sinabi ko sa mga kasama ko...... let's give them the chance to learn the hymns kaya puro melody lang....

tiger shark
11.08.10, 08:16 PM
Hohoho, kami spoken po dahil hirap ang congregation mag adopt sa new translation. hindi makanta ang Gloria, Holy, Holy, & Memorial Acclamation

Alexander
11.08.11, 11:02 AM
Dapat sanayin talaga.... wag nyo biglain... one song at a time :)

Alexander
11.08.16, 01:16 PM
This is a bit related discussion and I do not wish to create a new one, pero pag humaba tsaka ko na lang i-split....

Sino ba dito sa inyo ang nakasimba na circa 1970's.... I remember the old responses sa Tagalog Missal ay similar sa revised translation in English....

Example: "Marapat na Siya ay ating pasalamatan" used to be "Marapat at Matuwid" which is "It is right and just" sa revised translation....

Mayroon ba kayong alam na download link sa old Filipino Missal... I'm not certain which year was it published or implemented, siguro mga 60's pa ito....

J O J I T
11.08.16, 05:56 PM
Or---perhaps this is the more logical way of putting it---baka naman ang goal ay para masanay muna ang congregation sa main melody ng mga bagong settings. At least, in the first few months of the implementation. That way, makakasabay na talaga sila sa pag-awit kahit na magkaroon na ng full choral voicings sa mga susunod na misa :P

Kung ganun nga sana Titopao eh ok lang...kaya lang nagsimula ang reklamo sa ibang choir na hindi makapag voicing..nagsumbong sa pari at nagpatawag ng meeting ang pari dahil dun. kung anu-ano na sinabi kesyo di daw pwede ang "artistic singing".. tapos nung hindi na kami kumanta sa parish nila, nakita namin ang pari nagsimba sa parish namin. nasa likod..kahit na may mass din sa kanila..di namin ngayon alam kung ano balak..hehe

jon2406
11.08.19, 08:25 PM
This is a bit related discussion and I do not wish to create a new one, pero pag humaba tsaka ko na lang i-split....

Sino ba dito sa inyo ang nakasimba na circa 1970's.... I remember the old responses sa Tagalog Missal ay similar sa revised translation in English....

Example: "Marapat na Siya ay ating pasalamatan" used to be "Marapat at Matuwid" which is "It is right and just" sa revised translation....

Mayroon ba kayong alam na download link sa old Filipino Missal... I'm not certain which year was it published or implemented, siguro mga 60's pa ito....

Correct Alex, this is the response that we use to say back in the 70's. Di ko lang maalala kung saan version ng missal ito ginamit.

Alexander
11.09.01, 12:36 PM
This is a bit related discussion and I do not wish to create a new one, pero pag humaba tsaka ko na lang i-split....

Sino ba dito sa inyo ang nakasimba na circa 1970's.... I remember the old responses sa Tagalog Missal ay similar sa revised translation in English....

Example: "Marapat na Siya ay ating pasalamatan" used to be "Marapat at Matuwid" which is "It is right and just" sa revised translation....

Mayroon ba kayong alam na download link sa old Filipino Missal... I'm not certain which year was it published or implemented, siguro mga 60's pa ito....


Isa pang related na translation yung sa Penitential Act (aka I CONFESS...)

Old Tagalog Mass... "sa aking sala, sa aking sala, sa aking pinakamalaking sala ...."
Revised English Text ... "through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault (while striking the breast)..."

Diba parang dapat di na binago yung old Tagalog Mass..... hmmm.... wala ba kayong nahahalukay na links....



EDIT:

Useful Readings for changes in the Philippines
http://thepinoycatholic.blogspot.com/2011/06/new-translation-of-missal-to-be-used-in.html

General Reading
http://www.filipinochaplaincy.com/2011/06/changing-how-we-pray-a-guide-to-the-new-translation-of-the-roman-missal/

titopao
11.09.01, 12:55 PM
Useful Readings for changes in the Philippines
http://thepinoycatholic.blogspot.com/2011/06/new-translation-of-missal-to-be-used-in.html[/url]

Funny you linked to The Pinoy Catholic blog, who doesn't exactly have a liking for Fr. Anscar Chupongco and the institutions who are currently in charge of liturgy in the Philippines. Wala lang :P hehehe

Ako man, hindi ko rin masyadong trip si Fr. Anscar, and I wasn't happy that they wanted to delay the implementation of the new English (re)translation. (I mean, why not in Advent 2011 also?) I didn't like it that the Archdiocese of Manila came up with a "primer" on Summorum Pontificum (which he is said to have reviewed and approved) which implemented the opposite of what the Vatican wanted for Summorum ???
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/09/filipino-liturgists-react-against-summorum-pontificum/
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/02/archd-of-manila-on-summorum-pontificum/
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/04/card-castrillon-corrects-card-rosales-archd-manila-on-summorum-pontificum/ (nagalit ang isang taga-Vatican)
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/04/archd-of-manilas-clarification-about-summorum-pontificum/ (pinagalitan na nga ng Roma, matigas pa rin ang ulo :P )

Mabuti na lang at mas matigas ang ulo ni Bishop Soc Villegas. The Archdiocese of Lingayen-Dagupan implemented the mass in full and, like what I personally experienced having heard mass in Pangasinan, all the Pangasinenses were able to recite the new responses correctly and confidently. If Pangasinenses were able to do it, why can't the rest of us? Ano ba kasi talaga ang hidden agenda (kung meron man) nila Fr. Anscar et. al. kaya sadyang matigas ang ulo nila sa mga bilin ng Vatican? Anyone?

Alexander
11.09.01, 01:09 PM
Hahaha.... actually, was an accident to find that.... kasi nga naghahanap ako ng OLD FILIPINO MISSAL :P

I didn't know na ganoon ang issue sa link na yun (hehehe)... oo nga bakit ang tagal ng implementation? Anyway, like you said, any Diocese can initiate the change whenever it suits them (can be earlier preferably not later)

Pag nagbakasyon ako in the future, I would like to hear sana the new translation being used. Any hint @titopao kung saan nga yung SHRINE sa Bulacan using this already?



EDIT:::

Saan ba connected si Fr Anscar? Sa ECLIT ba?

Tanong ko sagot ko : http://www.cbcponline.net/commissions/liturgy.html
Exec Sec pala sya dun :P

titopao
11.09.01, 01:32 PM
Pag nagbakasyon ako in the future, I would like to hear sana the new translation being used. Any hint @titopao kung saan nga yung SHRINE sa Bulacan using this already?

Like what I said before, tatatlo lang naman ang shrines sa Diocese of Malolos (which covers all of Bulacan PLUS Valenzuela City)...and puro National Shrines pa ito:

* National Shrine of the Divine Mercy (Sta. Rosa, Marilao)
* National Shrine of St. Anne, Mother of the Virgin Mary (Poblacion, Hagonoy)
* National Shrine of Our Lady of Fatima (Bgy. Fatima, Valenzuela City)

So...tatlo lang ang suspects natin :) Pero dahil matagal-tagal na rin mula nang nauwi ako ng Bulacan, much less makasimba sa kahit na alin sa mga ito, I can't tell which one of these is using the new translation :P

Saan ba connected si Fr Anscar? Sa ECLIT ba?

According to what is supposedly his "official" Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fr-Anscar-Chupungco-OSB/106315746072983?sk=info):

Presently, he is director of the Paul VI Liturgical Insititute in Malyabalay, Bukidnon, and Secretary-Emeritus of the Episcopal Liturgical Commission of the CBCP.

So...hindi na yata siya ang namumuno sa ECLIT, but is now its secretary emeritus.

Be wary of the CBCP's website...not counting the "News" section, they have a lot of outdated pages there. There was even this page (http://www.cbcponline.net/commissions/collegio.html) where the late Cardinal Sin is still holding a position :P hehehe

Alexander
11.09.01, 01:40 PM
What are they doing.... the WEBSITE normally for an institution should be the best source of information.... mukhang sabog sabog sila ah (pity) :(

titopao
11.09.01, 01:56 PM
E eto nga mga nakakatawa sa website ng CBCP:

* 'Yung Bishop of Malolos, sa list of Dioceses, nakalist siya na Bishop of Malolos. But if you click on the link to his profile, it says he's the bishop of Boac, Marinduque!

* It turns out that the latest items in the "News" section were for...2007 :P

*...tapos, yung "CBCP Documents" was last updated in July 2010 pa yata.

Tsaka classic yung nakita ko nga kanina: patay na si Cardinal Sin, pero one of the pages make it look like he is still holding a particular office in one of the commissions. Di ko alam kung dapat ba akong kilabutan doon LOL

Oh well ::)

vic_romero
11.09.02, 02:39 AM
Si Padre Genaro Diwa, SLL, ng Arsodiyosesis ng Maynilà,
ang humalili kay Dom Anscar Chupungco, OSB
bilang Kalihim Tagapágpaganáp
ng Komisyón ng mga Obispo ukol sa Litúrhiya.

titopao
11.09.02, 08:57 AM
So tama nga ang mga usap-usapan. The padawan has succeeded his Jedi master :P

Alexander
11.09.02, 09:20 AM
Mataas ba ang midi-chlorian (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Midi-chlorian) counts nya? :P

Maiba ako.... was there any initiative to compose new music to conform with the revised ICEL texts sa Pinas? Or aasa na lang ang mga Pinoy mga foreign compo.

titopao
11.09.02, 09:44 AM
Mwahahahahaha LOL

Maiba ako.... was there any initiative to compose new music to conform with the revised ICEL texts sa Pinas? Or aasa na lang ang mga Pinoy mga foreign compo.

Di ko alam kung may ganong initiative na ginawa so far, but from what I understand, with regard to music settings, what was prioritized was the one that would eventually be published together with the new Missal (yung libro, that is). Kanya-kanya nang initiative kumbaga ng ibang music publishers sa US na maglabas ng new settings...which they did anyway :)

So ang challenge na lang dito, I think, is kung papaano ia-adapt sa new changes yung mga locally composed na English settings dito sa Pilipinas. Or better yet, mag-compose ng bagong settings 8) Although di ko pa alam kung sino na ang nakaisip gumawa ng mga bagong initiatives dito sa atin. Maybe I can ask around sa mga booths ng mga Catholic publishers (e.g. St. Paul's, Jescom/JMM) sa darating na Manila Bookfair :)

Let me emphasize, for English settings. To date, wala akong alam na may similar initiative na i-retranslate ang Banal na Misa sa Tagalog gaya ng ginawa ng ICEL sa English translation.

vic_romero
11.09.03, 10:09 AM
Si Ferdinand Bautista, maestro ng Koro ng Katedrál ng Maynilà
ay sumulat na ng “Mass of Blessed John Paul II,”
gamit ang ikatlóng edisyón sa Inglés ng Misal Romano.

Ang aking Missa “Fides” 2011 ay pagsasatugtugin
ng mga bahagì ng Misa ayon sa ikatlóng edisyón sa Inglés
ng Misal Romano.

Ang Missa “Fides” ay mayroón ring anyóng 2010,
gamit ang lumang teksto. Mayroón ding anyó sa Tagalog at Español.

koro_si_jason
11.09.17, 12:18 PM
sir vic, may available na po bang published score ang Mass of Blessed John Paul II ni sir Ferds Bautista? Kung meron po, saan po kaya maaaring makakuha (o kaya makabili) ng kopya?

Tanong ko na din po yung ang tungkol sa inyong Misa "Fides" 2011, kung mayroon na pong nakalimbag na kopya.

Salamat po.


:-)

@titopao:

Tanong po: may mga 'necessary' corrections pa po ba sa Tagalog translation ng ating misa? Wala naman po akong napansin na mga wikang kailangan pa ng mas mahusay na salin (maliban na lang po kung talagang malayo sa orihinal na teksto sa Latin). So far naman po kasi, ang English translation lang ang nakita kong kailangan (talaga) ng ilang re-translation.

Siya nga po pala, nakabili ako kahapon ng "Primer" ng New English Translation of the Roman Missal ni Dom. Anscar Chupungco. Sa Paul's bookstore sa Mall of Asia, 100 pesos lang. I'll scan the book cover tapos i-post ko po dito for everybody's information.

titopao
11.09.19, 08:33 AM
Tanong po: may mga 'necessary' corrections pa po ba sa Tagalog translation ng ating misa? Wala naman po akong napansin na mga wikang kailangan pa ng mas mahusay na salin (maliban na lang po kung talagang malayo sa orihinal na teksto sa Latin). So far naman po kasi, ang English translation lang ang nakita kong kailangan (talaga) ng ilang re-translation.

For the nth time... ::)

As far as I know, wala pang ganoong initiative sa CBCP na katulad ng sa ginawa sa English. So it's sage to assume that we'll be using the same Tagalog translation in the coming years.

However: bear in mind that the (current) Tagalog translation is merely a translation of the 1969 English translation---which was exactly the same one that the 2009/2010 is now replacing because of what was now deemed as an "incorrect" or "less than ideal" translation because it diverges a bit from the original Latin. The Tagalog mass that we know is not a direct translation of the Latin.

Siya nga po pala, nakabili ako kahapon ng "Primer" ng New English Translation of the Roman Missal ni Dom. Anscar Chupungco. Sa Paul's bookstore sa Mall of Asia, 100 pesos lang. I'll scan the book cover tapos i-post ko po dito for everybody's information.

The "Primer" of Fr. Anscar (har har har) ::)

Ni-browse ko ng kaunti sa St. Paul's yung libro and I've noticed a good number of pages wherein Fr. Anscar is implying that mali ang interpretation ng ICEL and ng Vatican, and yung kanya ang tama. I"ll leave it as an exercise to the unfortunate buyers of that book.

Needless to say, I'm not gonna buy that book. Or kahit na may mag-donate pa, hindi ko pa rin tatanggapin...thanks but no thanks :P

J O J I T
11.09.20, 10:04 PM
sa mga gusto ng english songs na angkop sa new roman missal, sabihin nyo lang at meron ako galling sa diocese namin dito. maganda naman sila at medyo may hawig sa JMM songs ang areglo. :) Mod Alex, gusto mo ba ng kopya? hehe SAB yata ito..

vic_romero
11.09.22, 02:14 AM
sir vic, may available na po bang published score ang Mass of Blessed John Paul II ni sir Ferds Bautista? Kung meron po, saan po kaya maaaring makakuha (o kaya makabili) ng kopya?

Tanong ko na din po yung ang tungkol sa inyong Misa "Fides" 2011, kung mayroon na pong nakalimbag na kopya.



Ang mga kathâ ni Ferdinand Bautista ay mabíbilí sa Katedrál o sa Arsobispado sa Intramuros.

Tungkól sa Missa “Fides” 2011, magpadalá lang ng PM sa akin at sasagutín ko.

Alexander
11.09.22, 03:37 PM
sa mga gusto ng english songs na angkop sa new roman missal, sabihin nyo lang at meron ako galling sa diocese namin dito. maganda naman sila at medyo may hawig sa JMM songs ang areglo. :) Mod Alex, gusto mo ba ng kopya? hehe SAB yata ito..

Sige i-email mo sa akin ang copy. Thanks

J O J I T
11.09.24, 04:16 AM
Sige i-email mo sa akin ang copy. Thanks

Sent! Kasama ka na din Mod Jon! :)

casper89
11.09.24, 12:32 PM
Pati din po ako Mod Jojit...

t68(underscore)hay(at)y.c.

Salamat po...

jon2406
11.09.24, 06:28 PM
Ako din Mod Jojit!!!:)

knightdom
11.09.24, 09:00 PM
sa mga gusto ng english songs na angkop sa new roman missal, sabihin nyo lang at meron ako galling sa diocese namin dito. maganda naman sila at medyo may hawig sa JMM songs ang areglo. :) Mod Alex, gusto mo ba ng kopya? hehe SAB yata ito..

hi, pwede pahingi din po ako. salamat po! God bless!

xavieristicology
11.09.26, 01:37 PM
May compositions din si Ryan Cayabyab para sa Archdiocese namin (Misa Pangasinan, pero English), new translation:

I Confess
Glory to God
Apostles Creed
Holy
Mystery of Faith
Our Father
Lamb of God

Asin ng Pamayanan (pang-recessional)
ICTHUS (Pang-entrance)

parang hahaba ang misa sa amin, haha...

J O J I T
11.09.27, 10:48 PM
email nyo ako francisflcruz(at)gmail(dot)com send ko sa inyo. :) MP3 and score. kung magagawan nyo ng midi for each voice mas ok..hehe :D

jon2406
11.09.28, 08:05 AM
May compositions din si Ryan Cayabyab para sa Archdiocese namin (Misa Pangasinan, pero English), new translation:

I Confess
Glory to God
Apostles Creed
Holy
Mystery of Faith
Our Father
Lamb of God

Asin ng Pamayanan (pang-recessional)
ICTHUS (Pang-entrance)

parang hahaba ang misa sa amin, haha...

Available na ba ito dito sa Galleria?:)

xavieristicology
11.09.28, 12:45 PM
Available na ba ito dito sa Galleria?:)

binigay lang sa amin ng parish priest namin ung piyesa... Ang nag-provide ng lyrics ay si Archbishop Soc Villegas, music by R. Cayabyab... ung icthus at asin ng pamayanan - lyrics by archbishop soc and music by rc...

Alexander
11.10.07, 10:27 AM
email nyo ako francisflcruz(at)gmail(dot)com send ko sa inyo. :) MP3 and score. kung magagawan nyo ng midi for each voice mas ok..hehe :D

Please do not post any request here, if you want your copy please email Mod Jojit direct. Any further post with your email address, account will be suspended for 2 days.

knightdom
11.10.08, 06:55 PM
Mod Jojit, na-receive ko na po. malaking tulong ito dito sa amin. God bless! :)

eto pala mga pinadala sa amin ng in-charge sa parish about sa changes, share ko lang:

http://ourlivingword.org/missalettes/Mass/Embracing_Change_in_the_Liturgy.pdf
http://ourlivingword.org/missalettes/Mass/Parts_of_the_Mass.pdf
http://ourlivingword.org/missalettes/Mass/Parts_of_the_Mass.pdf
http://ourlivingword.org/missalettes/Mass/Scripture_and_the_Mass.pdf
http://ourlivingword.org/missalettes/Mass/Ten_Questions_on_the_Roman_Missal.pdf
http://ourlivingword.org/missalettes/Mass/The%20Worshiping%20Assembly%20at%20Mass.pdf

dhapianist
11.11.21, 07:28 PM
Hello ! tanong ko lang po . kapag ba napalitan na ng new translation ang roman missal , hindi ba makakaapekto ang pag hahawak hawak ng kamay ng mga pilipino dito pag kumanta ng AMA NAMIN ?

vic_romero
11.11.24, 10:22 AM
Hello ! tanong ko lang po . kapag ba napalitan na ng new translation ang roman missal , hindi ba makakaapekto ang pag hahawak hawak ng kamay ng mga pilipino dito pag kumanta ng AMA NAMIN ?

Sa Pilipinas (maliban sa arsodiyosesis ng Lingayen-Dagupan), sa susunód na taón pa (Nobyembre 2012) sisimuláng gamitin ang bagong Missal sa Inglés.

Kung hindi sa Ingles ang Misa, waláng damay ang mga pagbabago sa Inglés. Katulad pa rin ng dati. Hindî pa naisasalin sa mga wika ng Filipinas ang bagong Missal. Sa isang salita, walang pagbabago.

Alexander
11.11.24, 12:30 PM
Wala rin pong binago sa dasal na Ama Namin sa wikang ingles, gayun din, wala pong nabanggit tungkol sa pag-hawak-hawak ng mga kamay

titopao
11.11.24, 02:10 PM
Hello ! tanong ko lang po . kapag ba napalitan na ng new translation ang roman missal , hindi ba makakaapekto ang pag hahawak hawak ng kamay ng mga pilipino dito pag kumanta ng AMA NAMIN ?

Wala rin pong binago sa dasal na Ama Namin sa wikang ingles, gayun din, wala pong nabanggit tungkol sa pag-hawak-hawak ng mga kamay

Two things:

First: the retranslation of the missal affects...well, just the retranslation of the responses in the mass, and not the gestures. So...no effect talaga whatsoever, kahit na linggo-linggo pa'ng ulit-ulitin 'yung retranslation ng misa :P

Just to reiterate, the English retranslation of the Holy Mass only affects the meaning rendered from the original Latin. There was no intention to change the rites and gestures of the mass at all.

Second: the General Instruction on the Roman Missal does not even prescribe a particular pose or action during the praying of the "Our Father". So

The only instruction in the GIRM relating to the "Our Father" is only about how it is to be prayed (e.g. in a loud manner):

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20030317_ordinamento-messale_en.html#C._The_Liturgy_of_the_Eucharist

[81. In the Lord’s Prayer a petition is made for daily food, which for Christians means preeminently the Eucharistic bread, and also for purification from sin, so that what is holy may, in fact, be given to those who are holy. The priest says the invitation to the prayer, and all the faithful say it with him; the priest alone adds the embolism, which the people conclude with a doxology. The embolism, enlarging upon the last petition of the Lord’s Prayer itself, begs deliverance from the power of evil for the entire community of the faithful.

The invitation, the Prayer itself, the embolism, and the doxology by which the people conclude these things are sung or said aloud.

But, as you can see here, there are no references to the "appropriate/correct" gesture. Just the manner of how the prayer is said (sung or recited aloud).

See also this:

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=1175&CFID=107140569&CFTOKEN=46012776
http://www.ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur10.htm
http://digex.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage.asp?Pgnu=2&Pg=Forum2&recnu=31&number=611922
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/05/quaeritur-our-father-hand-holding-fr-z-rants/
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/08/quaeritur-holding-hands-during-the-our-father/

Sir Michael
11.12.20, 06:06 AM
The Roman Missal indeed does not indicate any gesture to be done during the Lord's Prayer, but it indicates a few gestures to be made in certain parts of the Liturgy, which will be more implemented (might as well) as the transition to the new translation takes place, and this will include some changes such as:

The striking of the breast during the Confiteor "Through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault."
The bowing of the head during the words "who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary" for the Apostle's Creed and the words "and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man" for the Nicene Creed.
Standing right before the Orare Fratres "Pray, brethren, that my sacrifice and yours..." right after the offertory.

The General Instruction of the Roman Missal should be able to give further instructions regarding gestures such as kneeling during the consecration, and it is important to note too that each Conference of Bishops (CBCP, CCCB, USCCCB, etc) may have published their own adaptation of the GIRM.

Lastly, the cardinal rule in posture in the Liturgy is that it calls for uniformity in action to promote beauty and noble simplicity in the celebration, always looking for "what serves the common spiritual good of the People of God, rather than private inclination or arbitrary choice" (GIRM 42).

This means that, if during the consecration, and you kneel while everyone else is standing because you want to show to them that you think that kneeling is the right posture, you are the one who is not following the GIRM. If also during at another time during the consecration, you remain standing while everyone else is kneeling because you think that standing is the right posture, not because you cannot kneel, you are the one who is not following the GIRM.

AlyasNoel
12.02.02, 01:53 PM
May mga babaguhin ba sa mga kanta sa ating misa, ano-anu iyun?

Paulus_Magnus
12.02.06, 03:22 PM
Meron po basically since revised na ang translation ng sung parts ng misa. May mga Mass Settings na nailimbag na sa US na naaayon sa New Translation of the Roman Rite.

titopao
12.02.07, 08:51 AM
Just to emphasize, though, songs for the following mass parts:

GROUP A
-- entrance
-- offertory
-- communion
-- recessional

GROUP B
-- kyrie ("Lord/Christ, have mercy")
-- Alleluia
-- Great Amen

will not change because, except for parts I listed under "Group B", these parts are variable and this aren't directly affected by the retranslation. That is, wala namang ni-retranslate, so hindi naman na kailangang i-re-set 'yung mga kantang nagawa na. (Maliban na lang kung feeling masipag ang mga composers ::) )

For the Kyrie...hindi rin siya ni-retranslate, so most songs for this part can stay as they are. (Take note that even in the original Latin text, this part is in the Greek language, and AFAIK the former English translation is still faithful to the meaning of the Greek, so it stood as it was in the new translation.)

For the "Alleluia"...either people usually respond to this acclamation with an "Alleluia" or sing an acclamation that is based in the Lectionary. And since the Lectionary wasn't changed, most likely most Alleluia songs (if not all) composed thus far will stay as they are.

For the "Great Amen"..."Amen" lang naman ang sinasagot ng mga tao dito :) so most "Amen" songs can also stay as they are.

The rest---the Gloria, Sanctus/Hosanna, the Acclamation (after consecration) and the Agnus Dei, among others---have been affected by the retranslation, so existing English songs---tandaang maigi, sa English lang, hindi sa Tagalog, Bisaya, Ilokano or whatever---for these parts will have to be rewritten, or new ones have to be composed. This also applies to those responses where the priest initiates the singing (e.g. "The Lord be with you / And also with you" is now "The Lord be with you / And with your spirit").

There's another thread somewhere else in the boards that talk about the new English retranslations. If you want to learn more about it...the "Search" textbox on this page is your friend ;)

Hth :)

Sir Michael
12.02.12, 03:34 PM
Just to expound a little bit more, probably this will be decided upon the parish level, but if we really want to get strict even some of the musical settings for the Great Amen, e.g. Dan Schutte's Amen, where it includes the words Alleluia, forever and ever, might even be deemed unsuitable anymore

I was also thinking about Francisco's Lord, Have Mercy from Tinapay ng Buhay since the lyrics do not correspond to the third form of the Penitential Act of the new translation, but as I was snooping around websites I think most of them are saying that it was just supposed to be a guide - the priest, deacon, or minister who sings the tropes can modify it as the situation demands. But yes that also needs to be considered.

titopao
12.02.13, 08:48 AM
Just to expound a little bit more, probably this will be decided upon the parish level,

Ideally, not upon the parish level, but by the dioceses or archdiocese.

Decisions made in the parish level are enforceable when permitted by the parish priest (as head of the parish), and on a case to case basis. But that comes with the risk of being reported to the diocese or archdiocese. So as much as possible, kelangan talaga sa diocese or archdiocese muna sumangguni.

I was also thinking about Francisco's Lord, Have Mercy from Tinapay ng Buhay since the lyrics do not correspond to the third form of the Penitential Act of the new translation, but as I was snooping around websites I think most of them are saying that it was just supposed to be a guide - the priest, deacon, or minister who sings the tropes can modify it as the situation demands. But yes that also needs to be considered.

Hmm...ang binago lang naman ay yung English translation ng Mass from the Latin. But AFAIK, the GIRM itself wasn't amended (at least, not when this retranslation was published). So kung pinahintulutan iyong ganoong form ng Kyrie sa GIRM noon, dapat ay pwede pa rin ito ngayon :)

Sir Michael
12.02.13, 09:47 AM
Thanks for your insights titopao. Also just for information Canada actually released a new GIRM with adaptations for its country particularly made for the third edition of the Roman Missal which took effect when the new translation was used here.

titopao
12.03.06, 11:21 AM
Di ko sure kung nakita n'yo na ito. If your choir or community doesn't know about this, please pass the word (this applies to the Archdiocese of Manila only):

Source: http://rcam.org/news/309-gradual-implementation-of-the-new-english-translation-of-the-missal
Emphases in boldface added (except for Archbp. Tagle's name, which was already in boldface in the original source)
February 24, 2012


Dear Brother-Priests,


Greetings in the Lord!

The implementation of the New English Translation of the Roman Missal is an opportune moment of grace for the Church in the Philippines not only to appreciate the changes but deepen, nurture, and celebrate our faith through the renewal of our worship.

Because the liturgy is the “summit toward which the activity of the Church is directed; at the same time it is the font from which all her power flows,” the energy and attention we give to the implementation of and catechesis on the Roman Missal actually serves as the foundation for all our other programs and activities as a local Church. The liturgy informs, inspires and nourishes the Church’s life and mission.

In the Archdiocese of Manila, we propose to our parishes to begin the period of gradual implementation of the New English Translation on the Solemnity of Corpus Christi, June 10, 2012. The experience of other dioceses teaches us that it will be more beneficial if the program of catechesis occurs with a gradual implementation of the New English Translation. While the lay faithful notice the changes, they are catechized on their meaning and significance.

Gradual implementation means that all the responses, acclamations and their musical settings will be progressively introduced to our liturgical assemblies. When the full implementation comes in December 2012, we hope that the assembly would have been accustomed to their parts.

We also encourage our priests, during the period of gradual implementation, to familiarize yourselves with the silent prayers at Mass. These prayers help the priest “to exercise his ministry with greater attention and devotion.”

The Program of Gradual Implementation of the different parts pertaining to the participation of the assembly is as follows:

June – And with your Spirit (Greeting, Gospel, Preface, Final Blessing)
July – I confess
August – Gloria
September – Apostle’s Creed
October - Pray brethren, Memorial Acclamation
November - Invitation to Communion (Lord, I am not worthy)
December - Full implementation



The Episcopal Commission on Liturgy and the Archdiocesan Liturgical Commission prepared catechetical materials for use in our parishes and other communities. I encourage your pastoral teams to come up with a calendar of catechesis.

There is need for greater practice as we all strive to learn, understand and own our ageless faith in a new verbal expression in worship.

Thank you.



Sincerely in the Lord Jesus,

(signed)
+Luis Antonio G. Tagle
Archbishop of Manila

domontes
12.03.31, 09:30 AM
paano pala po ung mass na nakatranslate sa tagalog, parang direct traslation siya nung lumang english mass. may plano po ba silang palitan ung version na ginagamit natin ngayon?

Alexander
12.03.31, 01:46 PM
Wala pang directives sa pagkaka-alam ko. English pa lang ang papalitan

cinineleven
12.04.19, 12:44 PM
Question lang po, since malapit na pong ma-implement ang New Roman Missal, may mga reference books po bang available para po sa further explanation nito?

titopao
12.04.19, 01:03 PM
I figure you're having a hard time doing a manual search at the boards, no? :P hehehe

Anyways, check out the posts on this thread (http://bukaspalad.com/board/showthread.php?t=4437), andoon ang karamihan ng resources na kailangan mo :)

(@mods: paki-merge na lang ang thread na ito to that other thread :) )

For starters, check out these links:
http://old.usccb.org/romanmissal/
http://old.usccb.org/romanmissal/order-of-mass.pdf
http://old.usccb.org/romanmissal/annotated-mass.pdf
http://old.usccb.org/romanmissal/samples-people.shtml
http://old.usccb.org/romanmissal/samples-priest-intro.shtml

Hope these help :)

cinineleven
12.04.19, 06:31 PM
Thanks po. Newbie plng po kasi ako e...:D

will definitely take a look on these...then would share sa Parish namin.

Thanks po ulit ng marami :)

aaronveloso
12.04.20, 09:16 PM
By the way, for the information of everybody, the Abbey of San Beda has made new musical settings for the responses in line with the new translation. I visited Fr. Benildus recently and he showed me the new settings. Kasama sa local publication ito ng Roman Missal, 3rd Edition. :D

sjclc
12.05.03, 10:31 PM
Can we use the new responses for singing in the Mass even before Dec. 2? Just so that people would be familiar with them.

vic_romero
12.05.03, 10:58 PM
Can we use the new responses for singing in the Mass even before Dec. 2? Just so that people would be familiar with them.

The Program of Gradual Implementation of the different parts pertaining to the participation of the assembly is as follows:



June – And with your Spirit (Greeting, Gospel, Preface, Final Blessing)

July – I confess

August – Gloria

September – Apostle’s Creed

October - Pray brethren
Memorial Acclamation

November - Invitation to Communion (Lord, I am not worthy)

December - Full implementation

Alexander
12.05.06, 04:59 PM
Kuya Vic, sa RCAM po yata ang guidelines na yan (as posted by titopao)... dapat kasi merong initiative na magmula mismo sa CBCP para di nalilito ang mga tao.

By far po ba, ilang percentage sa inyong parokya ang English Mass. Other than that, wala ring effect sa iba.

rolandp43
12.05.09, 03:07 PM
pwede niyo po i-download ang Guide to the New Roman Missal by Sambuhay (http://ssp.ph/index.php/sambuhay-online/cat_view/4-guide-to-the-new-roman-missal)

vic_romero
12.05.09, 11:50 PM
pwede niyo po i-download ang Guide to the New Roman Missal by Sambuhay (http://ssp.ph/index.php/sambuhay-online/cat_view/4-guide-to-the-new-roman-missal)

Salamat, Roland.

Pero tamà si Alex. Nakákalitó, dahil waláng nakalathaláng pangkalahatáng pátakarán ang Panayám ng mga Obispo sa Pilipinas ukol sa ikatlóng edisyón ng Misal Romano sa Inglés. Kaniyá-kaniyá. Bahalà ang bawat diyosesis. Hindî makapagplano at makapaghandâ ang mga litúrhista at musikero, dahil waláng pamumunò.

Kayâ ang aking mungkahì ay sundán na lang ang anumáng pakatakaráng galing sa arsodiyosesis ng Maynilà.

Alexander
12.05.12, 03:39 PM
Roland. I am surprised to see that the Sambuhay did not state the text of the Lord's Prayer.

I am actually asking Bukas Palad (because they are recording a new mass set according to the revised Missal) whether they are using the traditional text or yung dating text na ginagamit sa Pinas.

See page 38 - http://old.usccb.org/romanmissal/order-of-mass.pdf

The question is for the purpose of setting music to the specific texts.

sjclc
12.05.13, 10:13 AM
It's because the Lord's Prayer is not part of the re-translation, i.e. it's good enough as it is. So what would be known as the "official" text is the one that the USCCB currently promulgates; there is no such thing as a "traditional" text. It's been the same since Vatican II.

vic_romero
12.05.14, 02:48 AM
Lord's Prayer:

Priest: At the Savior’s command and formed by divine teaching, we dare to say:

All: Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come;
thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

Priest: Deliver us, Lord, we pray, from every evil,
graciously grant peace in our days,
that, by the help of your mercy,
we may be always free from sin and safe from all distress,
as we await the blessed hope and the coming of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

All: For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever.

titopao
12.05.14, 07:32 AM
Pero tamà si Alex. Nakákalitó, dahil waláng nakalathaláng pangkalahatáng pátakarán ang Panayám ng mga Obispo sa Pilipinas ukol sa ikatlóng edisyón ng Misal Romano sa Inglés. Kaniyá-kaniyá. Bahalà ang bawat diyosesis. Hindî makapagplano at makapaghandâ ang mga litúrhista at musikero, dahil waláng pamumunò.

CBCP? Good luck na lang d'yan, mukhang nasa ibang "more important matters" kasi ang priority ng CBCP :P

Although in the end, nasa bawas diyosesis ang huling salita ng kung papaano dapat ilatag ang paggamit ng bagong/muling salin ng misa sa Ingles. ('Yan ang dahilan kung bakit nagpasya si Arsobispo Soc Villegas na gamitin ora mismo ang bagong salin. Because he can ;) )

It's because the Lord's Prayer is not part of the re-translation, i.e. it's good enough as it is. So what would be known as the "official" text is the one that the USCCB currently promulgates; there is no such thing as a "traditional" text. It's been the same since Vatican II.

Well...to begin with, mababago lang ang pagsasalin ng "Pater Noster" kung may naglabas na ng bagong pagsasalin ng Bibliya at ito ay gagamitin mismo ng Vatican II (at ng ICEL). Kumbaga, why state the obvious? That's why it's not in the Sambuhay ;)

Sa ngayon, NAB (New American Bible) at NRSV (New Revised Standard Version) pa rin ang umiiral na English translation na ginagamit. Hangga't hindi sila napapalitan, malabo ring magkaroon ng "new" translation ng Our Father.

Jim Lopez
12.05.14, 11:10 AM
Dito sa Canada, we are already using it. And here in Winnipeg, We have a Filipino priest na nag compose ng mass setting song for the new missal. Nakakapanibago...

Alexander
12.05.14, 08:28 PM
Lord's Prayer:

Priest: At the Savior’s command and formed by divine teaching, we dare to say:

All: Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come;
thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

Priest: Deliver us, Lord, we pray, from every evil,
graciously grant peace in our days,
that, by the help of your mercy,
we may be always free from sin and safe from all distress,
as we await the blessed hope and the coming of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

All: For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever.

Kuya Vic, ever since na dumating kami dito sa Australia, ito na ang version na ginagamit sa mass.... nalilito nga ako dati lalo na pag may rosary, they are using the version above...

@titopao, speaking of ICEL, since nabanggit mo na din.... eto ang music setting sa ICEL website for Pater Noster....

http://www.icelweb.org/musicfolder/openpdf.php?file=LordsPrayer.pdf

titopao
12.05.15, 07:13 AM
@titopao, speaking of ICEL, since nabanggit mo na din.... eto ang music setting sa ICEL website for Pater Noster....

http://www.icelweb.org/musicfolder/openpdf.php?file=LordsPrayer.pdf

It's actually the same setting of the "Pater Noster" that people hear whenever there's a mass telecast from the Vatican ;) Ang pinagkaiba lang nito:

* transposed ito ng one whole step up (from the usual F-major) para walang key signature 'pag sinulat sa music paper.
* merong English setting (hehehe)

Alexander
12.05.15, 07:12 PM
Yup, English and Latin nga. Kaya kung the Philippines would be following the new English Missal, this should be the version ng "The Lord's Prayer" na gagamitin.

Minsan ginagamit din namin ang arrangment as "chant", dahil ito rin ang isang form na ini-encourage na gamitin.

tristan_ramirez
12.06.21, 11:25 PM
Hello BPOnliners!

Ask ko lang if may mga new set of songs na kayong ginagamit para sa implementation ng New English Translation of the Roman Missal?

Ano po yung mga lineup na pinalitan sa songs?

Sa amin kasi sa Las Pinas, magpupulong pa lang kami by July para sa bagong guidelines ng mga kanta. May ipinarinig na din sa aming bagong version ng Gloria, and medyo may kabagalan ang version nito and parang chant na ang dating.

Please do share kung ano na ang mga nangyayari sa inyong mga parokya regarding this at makapag-share tayo ng resources, pyesa, etc.

titopao
12.06.22, 07:27 AM
@Tristan: Just to be clear lang (and para na rin sa mga newbies na mapapadaan dito):

Any "new" mass songs will most likely affect only the responses and the liturgical prayers (like the Gloria, the Sanctus ["Holy, holy, holy"] and Agnus Dei ["Lamb of God."]). That's because 'yun lang naman 'yung ni-retranslate ng ICEL.

So any such "new" settings does not include the following (because hindi naman sila ni-retranslate anyway...or rather, wala namang ita-translate sa kanila):

* Entrance song
* Offertory song
* Communion song
* Recessional song

However, the following translations may not necessarily have a new setting for the following reasons:

* Alleluia verses or sequences (because the verses of the Alleluia are taken from the Lectionary, not the Missal)
* Great Amen (because "Amen" still translates to "Amen" :) )

Kung meron man silang new settings, then well and good :) It's just that hindi naman nagbago ang text n'un before and after the translation.

Alexander
12.06.22, 08:36 AM
tristan,

I'll merge this to the existing thread so that you'd have more information available in your group discussion.

joogoose
12.07.01, 10:13 PM
sino po sa inyu may music score ng mass response...kasi the response when the priest said " The Lord be with you " instead "and also w ith you" is now change to "And with your Spirit"? we are istructed by our liturgist to cmply the new response...PAki naman po sino po sa inyo ang may score nito?

Alexander
12.07.02, 09:26 AM
During the Greeting

http://www.icelweb.org/musicfolder/openpdf.php?file=Greeting.pdf

During the Gospel

http://www.icelweb.org/musicfolder/openpdf.php?file=GospelTonesExamples.pdf
http://www.icelweb.org/musicfolder/openpdf.php?file=GospelTonesSolExamples.pdf

During Preface

http://www.icelweb.org/musicfolder/openpdf.php?file=PrefaceDialogue.pdf

During the "Sign of Peace"

http://www.icelweb.org/musicfolder/openpdf.php?file=SignOfPeace.pdf

During the Final Blessing

http://www.icelweb.org/musicfolder/openpdf.php?file=Blessing.pdf


Other music can be found here... http://www.icelweb.org/musicfolder/openmusic.php

alastoy
12.07.02, 06:15 PM
I got Song book po of Mass of Creation by Marty haugen, revised edition for New English Translation of the holy Mass. PM lang po sa kin yung Interested, copyrighted materials po kasi.

marlo_27
12.07.03, 10:46 AM
Hello po, from Mindanao po ako, Kailan po maavailable ang Scoresheet ng bagong revised song ng BUKASPALAD with Father Manoling Francisco like Glory to God? Ask ko lang po. And makikita na po ba sya sa Youtube? C:

When po magcoconduct ng WORKSHOP ang BUkas Palad para malinawan kami sa alituntunin ng ICEL,sa NEw Roman MIssal Translation, kasi po dito, gusto nila yung lyrics talaga same sa texto ng ICEL at hindi pwede yung" Glory, glory to God in the highest and on earth peace to people of good will"[/B] sa MASS ni Dan Schutte na version or Glory to God, glory to God, glory to God in the Highest and on earth peace , on earth peace to people of good will"by Tony Alonso in Mass of Joy and Peace. Kasi dapat Glory to God in the Highest and on earth peace to people of good will" dapat ang mga song ng Gloria. And yung kay Mr. Ryan Cayabyab po daw na Mass of St. John the Beloved di po daw kasi pwede, kasi ang Refrain nya hindi kinakanta ulit after ng verses, diretso-diretso raw sya hanggang third verse and Amen kaagad. Maganda din sya kasi yung kay Mr. Cayabyab kasi short, nagtatanong ako bakit di pwede.Majestic naman sya, kaso di daw pwede. Nalilito ako pumili ng song, at kailangan ko ng maiprove sa kanila na pwede sya, kaso di ko alam paano ireason-out. At sa Lamb of GOd dapat po daw " Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace" ang last na Lyrics at hindi daw pwede yung kanta na " Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace, grant us peace "kasi pauli.ulit ang word,nakita ko sya sa MASS OF SPIRIT AND GRACE by Manalo. Maganda sana sya kaso ayaw ng moderator namin kasi dapat sumunod kung ano lang ang text nakalagay sa music workshop dito. Pahingi po ng tulong kung ano ang dapat gawin din po :C

vic_romero
12.07.04, 10:45 AM
http://www.bukaspalad.com/board/showthread.php?t=4437

Alexander
12.07.05, 07:08 AM
And yung kay Mr. Ryan Cayabyab po daw na Mass of St. John the Beloved di po daw kasi pwede, kasi ang Refrain nya hindi kinakanta ulit after ng verses, diretso-diretso raw sya hanggang third verse and Amen kaagad.

Yung areglo whether the "refrain" or "Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace to people of goodwill" is repeated every "verse" or not... is ACCEPTABLE so long as the correct TEXT is used.

Example where refrain is repeated is Marty Haugen's Mass of Creation revised mass set. Example where the Glory to God is sung straight is Paul Taylor's Mass of St Francis (http://www.bukaspalad.com/board/showthread.php?t=8695)

Link - http://www.cam.org.au/evangelisation/download-document/159-03-glory-to-god-cantor.html

In reality, there is no such thing as Refrain and Verses in that prayer.

Hope this helps....


By the way if you want to download the MASS of ST FRANCIS (http://www.bukaspalad.com/board/showthread.php?t=8695).... I already posted it here. This is one of the MASS set we use in the Archdiocese of Melbourne

LINK - http://www.bukaspalad.com/board/showthread.php?t=8695


EDIT..... just checked the links.... files are already removed. Sorry

titopao
12.07.05, 07:59 AM
Hi marlo_27 :)

And yung kay Mr. Ryan Cayabyab po daw na Mass of St. John the Beloved di po daw kasi pwede, kasi ang Refrain nya hindi kinakanta ulit after ng verses, diretso-diretso raw sya hanggang third verse and Amen kaagad. Maganda din sya kasi yung kay Mr. Cayabyab kasi short, nagtatanong ako bakit di pwede.Majestic naman sya, kaso di daw pwede. Nalilito ako pumili ng song, at kailangan ko ng maiprove sa kanila na pwede sya, kaso di ko alam paano ireason-out.

Yung areglo whether the "refrain" or "Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace to people of goodwill" is repeated every "verse" or not... is ACCEPTABLE so long as the correct TEXT is used.

Example where refrain is repeated is Marty Haugen's Mass of Creation revised mass set. Example where the Glory to God is sung straight is Paul Taylor's Mass of St Francis (http://www.bukaspalad.com/board/showthread.php?t=8695)

Link - http://www.cam.org.au/evangelisation/download-document/159-03-glory-to-god-cantor.html

In reality, there is no such thing as Refrain and Verses in that prayer.


Just to support Alex's answer, the authoritative reference that you should look up to is the General Instruction on the Roman Missal (Musicam Sacram kasi is more about choosing the songs, and less of how the songs/prayers should be sung/recited. GIRM says the following about the Gloria:

The Gloria

53. The Gloria is a very ancient and venerable hymn in which the Church, gathered together in the Holy Spirit, glorifies and entreats God the Father and the Lamb. The text of this hymn may not be replaced by any other text. The Gloria is intoned by the priest or, if appropriate, by a cantor or by the choir; but it is sung either by everyone together, or by the people alternately with the choir, or by the choir alone. If not sung, it is to be recited either by all together or by two parts of the congregation responding one to the other.

It is sung or said on Sundays outside the Seasons of Advent and Lent, on solemnities and feasts, and at special celebrations of a more solemn character.

Four things that you should take note:

#1. The prohibition imposed regarding the Gloria is on the alteration of the text, not on the repetition of the text.

Uulitin ko, para mas malinaw. Ang bawal ay palitan 'yung lyrics ng Gloria. Hindi sinabing "bawal ulitin 'yung part ng Gloria." If you sing "Gloria in excelsis Deo et in terra pax hominibus" as in a refrain, you repeated the lyrics but you did not change the lyrics.

#2. The fact that the GIRM says that the Gloria can be sung "by the people alternately with the choir" suggests that it may be possible for the Gloria to be sung in parts like a refrain-verse-refrain song. When I was in Sydney, the cathedral choir did sing it in this manner...and partida, Gregorian chant pa 'yung Gloria na ginagamit nila. (You may also want to point out that even in the televised masses at the Vatican, the Gloria is sometimes sung in this manner.)

#3. Wala ito sa nasabing section ng GIRM (just try doing a search for "translation" on the link below), but it does say in the GIRM that for as long as you're using what is the (currently) approved translation, you should use that translation. Of course, no questions asked na 'yung Latin ang definitive text ng Mass, so for the English translation of the Gloria, you should try to use a setting that conforms to the recently approved translation.

#4. Now, as for whether you "should" use it now...if you're in an arch/diocese that implements the new ICEL translation right now (e.g. Archdiocese of Lingayen-Dagupan; all dioceses and archdioceses in the US, Canada, Australia and the United Kingdom), then it's a no-brainer. Gamitin n'yo na 'yung new settings, you're not excused to use the old ones.

But in other dioceses in the Philippines....check muna kung ano ang current status sa inyo. In the Archdiocese of Manila, inu-unti-unti ang implementation ng ICEL translation. For June, "and with your spirit" is mandatory, but not the other translated responses. Ngayon, kung hindi pa naman nire-require na gamitin 'yung new text ng Gloria...well, I wouldn't say that it's a good excuse to stick to the former translation. Just look at it this way: use it as an opportunity to learn a new setting, and also use it as an opportunity to teach the community the new responses. Either way, pabor pa rin naman sa choir and sa sambayanan 'yung lead time na binigay sa inyo.

One thing is for sure: by Advent 2012, using the ICEL translation is now mandatory throughout the Philippines, Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao. No excuses. So habang maaga pa, use every opportunity you have to learn new settings (or compose one, if you're so inclined ;) ).


At sa Lamb of GOd dapat po daw " Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace" ang last na Lyrics at hindi daw pwede yung kanta na " Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace, grant us peace "kasi pauli.ulit ang word, nakita ko sya sa MASS OF SPIRIT AND GRACE by Manalo. Maganda sana sya kaso ayaw ng moderator namin kasi dapat sumunod kung ano lang ang text nakalagay sa music workshop dito. Pahingi po ng tulong kung ano ang dapat gawin din po :C

Again, from the GIRM:

The Fraction

83. The priest breaks the Eucharistic Bread, assisted, if the case calls for it, by the deacon or a concelebrant. Christ’s gesture of breaking bread at the Last Supper, which gave the entire Eucharistic Action its name in apostolic times, signifies that the many faithful are made one body (1 Cor 10:17) by receiving Communion from the one Bread of Life which is Christ, who died and rose for the salvation of the world. The fraction or breaking of bread is begun after the sign of peace and is carried out with proper reverence, though it should not be unnecessarily prolonged, nor should it be accorded undue importance. This rite is reserved to the priest and the deacon.

The priest breaks the Bread and puts a piece of the host into the chalice to signify the unity of the Body and Blood of the Lord in the work of salvation, namely, of the living and glorious Body of Jesus Christ. The supplication Agnus Dei, is, as a rule, sung by the choir or cantor with the congregation responding; or it is, at least, recited aloud. This invocation accompanies the fraction and, for this reason, may be repeated as many times as necessary until the rite has reached its conclusion, the last time ending with the words dona nobis pacem (grant us peace).

As you can see here:

#1. The GIRM itself says you can repeat the Agnus Dei as often as you want. Or to be more precise, the Agnus Dei can be repeated as often as needed.

Meaning, kung ang setting ay maulit, OK lang na 'yun pa rin ang gamitin n'yo. Ang pinakaimportante lang ay, tapos na bang gawin ng pari 'yung mga ritwal na kailangan niyang gawin sa fraction? But if it happens that he's done quickly and the song is not...well, it doesn't make sense either to cut the song midway, right? So it's still your call.

But one thing is clear. Hindi ipinagbawal 'yung Agnus dei na inuulit, for as long as it accompanies the priest performing the fraction rite. Period.

#2. Now, if your moderator still does not agree...as far as I know, the GIRM has not been revised, the ICEL translation did not amend the GIRM, nor does any other regulation from the Vatican said anything to that effect. If your moderator does not agree with what the GIRM says, then...perhaps he can write to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments and request that it be accordingly amended and revised by the Pope, he will be doing a great service to the many who are serving in their own respective music ministries 8)


Source:
General Instruction on the Roman Missal (GIRM)
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20030317_ordinamento-messale_en.html

Alexander
12.07.05, 08:11 AM
As you can see here:

#1. The GIRM itself says you can repeat the Agnus Dei as often as you want. Or to be more precise, the Agnus Dei can be repeated as often as needed.

Meaning, kung ang setting ay maulit, OK lang na 'yun pa rin ang gamitin n'yo. Ang pinakaimportante lang ay, tapos na bang gawin ng pari 'yung mga ritwal na kailangan niyang gawin sa fraction? But if it happens that he's done quickly and the song is not...well, it doesn't make sense either to cut the song midway, right? So it's still your call.

But one thing is clear. Hindi ipinagbawal 'yung Agnus dei na inuulit, for as long as it accompanies the priest performing the fraction rite. Period.


This is actually what we do titopao, ang instruction sa amin ng PP.... until such time na makita namin siyang doing the fraction.... that's the only time that we sing the "grant us peace" or else, uulitin lang din niya ang silent prayer.... we sometimes have to repeat the "Lamb of God..... have mercy on us" 4 to 6 times before we end.

;)

marlo_27
12.07.05, 09:21 AM
Marami pong salamat titopao at alexander, naliwanagan na po ako at may katibayan na po ako na masabi sa Sacred Music Ministry namin dito sa Mindanao. Again marami pong salamat sa inyo po. C:

jeiter23
12.07.13, 12:16 PM
marami na pala nag bago??

Alexander
12.07.23, 01:19 PM
Mass here in Sambuhay TV Mass includes the responses of the revised English liturgy

vBEsDw-orf0

except for some songs which were sung in Filipino (e.g., Santo, Memorial Acclamation)
Just listened din before acclamation.... nasabi ng Pari "Let us proclaim the mystery of faith".... dapat "The mystery of faith" lang... nakalimot siguro si Father :D

Yung "through Him, with Him...." din di pa rin binago... siguro sa RCAM nga ito na partial pa ang implementation...

jeiter23
12.07.26, 11:59 AM
kailangan pala mag-UPDATE... hehehe

marlo_27
12.08.08, 09:15 AM
*Hello po sa inyo mga bukas palad onliner members, moderators, good morning po! C:

*Recently, I attended the seminar workshop regarding about the new roman missal and the guidelines in singing the song in the church (Liturgical song in wedding and burial mass) that was held in our Parish. After we have finished to discuss the guidelines and about the New Roman MIssal translation, one of the coordinator of the choir in our sacred music ministry said that, since their songs where easy ang singable as they observe through the opinion of the people "daw", they wanted that all the choir in our parish, will sing also their song they are singing in lieu of the english translation. In our side, as a member of the Sacred Music Ministry in our parish, since we have already practice our songs in the new roman missal ICEL, and we already sing it last June, it is unfair to have that kind of decision and sing their songs that they are trying to implement it. Freedom of choosing a song from the choir is being suppressed.
*For our side, our coordinator said unto them, that we, our group are not musician and we try to choose other composition of the composer that we can sing easily and play easily as best with our abilities and talent we can offer to God. But we follow the ICEL text and the GIRM.
*To those bukas palad onliner who read this,"Is it a good idea of the general coordinator to implement the song they are singing and letting us other choir to play this songs? As what St. Paul said, "We are many parts but one BODY". "parang sinsabi nila na dahil maganda yung song nila, musician sila, ifollow nalang namin sila".
*Thinking of these kind of idea, for me it is an unfair decision on that kind idea, and how about some of the Basic Ecclesial Community (BEC) Choir in the barrio and sitio, whose guitarist and members do not know how to read musical notes and they have already practice their own mass proper song taken from other composers and also created by others that they can easily play and it follows the GIRM and the ICEL text.
*Regarding about this, "Ask lang po ng feedback regarding about this discussion created by the head of our coordinator which is from the other choir.Thanks. C:

Alexander
12.08.08, 01:42 PM
Tanong ko lang marlo_27, yun bang pinapagamit ng isang coordinator, will this be use for the English Liturgy or local dialect? Kung English Liturgy at sinabi ng local bishop ninyo na ICEL texts ang basis, dapat ang gamitin ay ICEL texts (saan man o sino man ang composer nito na tinatanggap sa inyong Diocese) PERO kung local dialect ang misa, pwedeng di gamitin ang ICEL kasi nga ay English Mass lang ang binabago nitong New English Translation of the Roman Missal.

Now... regarding song choices, napag-uusapan yan, normally kung merong committee ang music ministry represented by different choirs from the parish and chapels... ideally, you'd ask for suggestion or merong ipo-propose base sa mga darating na Sunday liturgy. Kung merong iisang tao na coordinator ng isang choir ang magdidikta ng kakantahin ninyo, makakabubuting i-refer ninyo sa inyong Pari at hingin ang kanyang opinion, baka naman utos yun ni Father e.

Pero kung ang sitwasyon ay beyond the normal at merong nire-release ang Liturgical Commission nyo sa Diocese or Parish, they have to provide you the sheet music and endeavor for all the choirs to learn the music together para maituro ninyo sa mga kasama nyo sa choir.

marlo_27
12.08.08, 02:42 PM
*Sir alex, thanks sa reply nyo po. English liturgy po sya. Base sa decision po nya, sumang-ayon po ang coordiantor namin sa kanyang plano and di din po nanggaling sa parish priest ang idea nya po. Kaya yun po nagdebatehan sila regarding sa padalos dalos na decision ng isang coordinator and kinontra sya ng other coordinator ng choir in the church. For me, pangit din kasi paglahat same ang mga kanta sa mass proper and sa amin as another group of choir, nakapagpractice na po kami ng mga new roman missal songs compose by other composers na naishare sa akin dito po sa messageboard, and we sing it already last June, which is easy lang sya tugtugin. The New Roman Missal song we have sung is following the New Roman Missal Translation po, composition po ni Haugen, Haas and Proulx po. Thanks sir alex, useful talaga po ang messageboard na to. C:

*And sir alex, sayang naman effort namin and the other choirs na meron na napili na New Roman Missal song for the full implementation in December, if di po kami magkontra sa kanyang decision last time. That is why our moderator/coordinator raises her suggestion and comments na di pwede isang version na lang ng kanta ng New Roman MIssal ang kantahin ng lahat ng choir sa parish namin kasi po yung iba, and moderator namin ay nahirapan sya itugtog yung mga Mass Proper song naiplano ng nagsuggest na isang coordinator. Porke dahil lang po na masmaganda songs nila, pwede nya nang magdominate at ipakanta ang kanta nila sa mga choirs.
And sayang naman po ang" The Lord's Prayer ni Father Manoling na napractice na namin at naikanta na namin sa mass, tapos palitan namin kasi, yung sa kanila ang ifollow na Our Father ang tugtugin namin po. Parang unfair po sa other choir.

Alexander
12.08.08, 07:21 PM
Maganda rin kasi kung isang klase muna nga ang aralin ng buong parokya, kasi nga naman kung lahat ng choir ay iba iba ang ituturo at sabay sabay pa kayong bago ay malilito ang parishioners.

Sa Parish namin, isang mass set lang sa halos lahat ng masses, tapos puro melody lang lahat, wala munang nag ha-harmony para makasanayan ng mga tao ang bagong responses. Tapos, makalipas ang ilang buwan o kung nagpalit ng season, nagpapalit kami ng ibang mass set pero pare pareho din sa ibang choir for the same reason above.

Yun... sana makatulong

marlo_27
12.08.08, 10:04 PM
Nice po comment nyo sir alex. But we can suggest din po which song piece do we need to sing and be voted by the different choirs in our church. Thank you sir alex sa reply... C:

d0d0fer
12.08.09, 01:03 AM
After we have finished to discuss the guidelines and about the New Roman MIssal translation, one of the coordinator of the choir in our sacred music ministry said that, since their songs where easy ang singable as they observe through the opinion of the people "daw", they wanted that all the choir in our parish, will sing also their song they are singing in lieu of the english translation.

What exactly are the "easy singable" songs they want all choirs of your parish to sing -- title/composer and other details?


To those bukas palad onliner who read this,"Is it a good idea of the general coordinator to implement the song they are singing and letting us other choir to play this songs?

OK if they will teach their new songs to all the choirs in your parish including interested parishioners, and give copies of the music (score sheets & audio) for free. :)

marlo_27
12.08.09, 01:25 AM
Hi to dodofer, the composer is dan schutte. They wiiling to give a sheet. But it was discussed already that to those interested choirs who want to sing the song they are using. C:

ka Paul
12.08.11, 09:43 AM
Heto po ung ginagamit namin na film bago mag start ang misa to catechize the congregation:

2gYl1t5oXSg

Courtesy of Divine Savior Parish

vic_romero
12.08.11, 11:42 AM
Anóng wikà ang naiintindihán ng taumbayan sa Kamaynilaan?
a. Inglés
b. Filipino

[wastóng sagót: b. Filipino]

Saáng wikà mas maraming Misa sa Kamaynilaan?
a. Inglés
b. Filipino

[wastóng sagót: a. Inglés]

===

Sa Unang Linggó ng Pagdatíng, Disyembre 2, 2012, sisimuláng gamitin ang ikatlóng edisyón ng Misal Romano SA INGLES sa Pilipinas.

Sa halíp na "and also with you," ang bagong sagót sa "The Lord be with you" ay magiging "and with your spirit."

X: Waláng pagbabago (walâ pa) sa Filipino. "Sumainyó ang Panginoón: At sumaiyó rin."
Y: Ah, sa Inglés lang pala ang mga pagbabago!
X: Kayâ namán ang video na ginawâ upang ipaliwanag at iturò ang mga pagbabago ay nasa Filipino.

Y: Ha? Bakit sa Filipino ang paliwanag? E, sa Inglés ang Misa?
X: Para maintindihan ng taumbayan, kayâ sa Filipino ang paliwanag.

Y: Teka muna, 1) sa Filipino ang paliwanag, upang maintindihan, tamà?
X: Tamà.

Y: Tapos, 2) ang Misa mismo ay sa Inglés?
X: Tumpák.

Y: Kung wikang Filipino ang naiintindihán ng taumbayan, bakit sa Inglés ang Misa?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gYl1t5oXSg

ka Paul
12.08.11, 01:49 PM
Y: Kung wikang Filipino ang naiintindihán ng taumbayan, bakit sa Inglés ang Misa?

Tama kuya vic... sinisimulan muna ata ng karamihan (maraming bansa) ang pagtranslate ng Roman Missal sa Ingles at maaaring isunod na ng bansa natin na itranslate naman nito sa Tagalog (Filipino language)...

Alexander
12.08.13, 06:27 AM
OT...

Naalala ko tuloy ang lumang bersyon sa tagalog ng Confiteor (I Confess)

"Sa aking sala, sa aking sala, sa aking pinakamalaking sala".... mas tama pa nga noon ang lumang translation sa wikang Filipino...

Isa pa yung translationg ngayon na "It is right and just".... sa lumang salin sa misang Filipino ay... "Marapat at matuwid" na kasalukuyang "marapat na Siya ay ating pasalamatan" na translation mula sa dating edition ng ICEL...

Meron ba kayong alam na mapagkukunan ng lumang Tagalog na MISSAL.

d0d0fer
12.08.13, 12:15 PM
Y: Kung wikang Filipino ang naiintindihán ng taumbayan, bakit sa Inglés ang Misa?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gYl1t5oXSg

OT...

E ang Simbanggabi nga na isang natatanging tradisyon na Filipino Katoliko, bakit mas maraming wikang Ingles ang Misa? ???

D'MECC
12.08.27, 04:47 PM
tanong ko lang... wala na bang misa sa tagalog or any vernacular language pag pinatupad na itong BAGONG SALIN?

knightdom
12.08.27, 08:27 PM
dito sa amin, binigay yung sheet music sa trainor/conductor namin at dun sa ibang mga heads ng choir. nagbigay din ata ng sample na clips nung mga song tapos yung trainor/conductor na namin ang nagturo sa amin.

napansin ko sa English Sambuhay hindi pa fully ginagamit ang new roman missal kaya hindi ito ang ginagamit dito sa amin. yung mga kasama ko na nagbakasyon sa pinas sabi nila hindi pa din talaga ginagamit ang new roman missal sa mga english na misa.

@D'MECC - Yung sa tagalog mukhang matatagalan pa yun siguro, sadyang inuna lang ang english translation kasi dito magmumula ang basehan ng pagsalin sa ibang wika / lenguahe. ilang taon ang gugugulin para makumpleto ang pagsasalin.

mark_chua
12.08.27, 08:29 PM
Hi guys,

Tanong ko lang po, may schedule ang implementation ng English Translation di ba? Like for example this August, Gloria ang dapat ma-implement. Does this mean pwede na din namin kantahin yun bagong song with new translation ng Gloria this August or we should wait for December 2012? Please advise. Thank you.

vic_romero
12.08.27, 09:23 PM
Hi guys,

Tanong ko lang po, may schedule ang implementation ng English Translation di ba? Like for example this August, Gloria ang dapat ma-implement. Does this mean pwede na din namin kantahin yun bagong song with new translation ng Gloria this August or we should wait for December 2012? Please advise. Thank you.


Mark:

Heto ang schedule sa Arsodiyosesis ng Maynila:

http://www.rcam.org/news/642-gradual-implementation-of-the-new-english-translation-of-the-roman-missal

titopao
12.08.28, 09:16 AM
tanong ko lang... wala na bang misa sa tagalog or any vernacular language pag pinatupad na itong BAGONG SALIN?

Sa English lang nagkaroon ng ganitong initiative. The initiative came from the Vatican and not from the CBCP or the Archdiocese of Manila, which means that if you go to another country and hear mass in English, you'll also use these new responses :)

Tagalog? AFAIK, wala pang initiative. As to whether magkakaroon ng revision ang Tagalog translation...knowing the CBCP and its (sometimes misplaced) priorities? Good luck :P

napansin ko sa English Sambuhay hindi pa fully ginagamit ang new roman missal kaya hindi ito ang ginagamit dito sa amin. yung mga kasama ko na nagbakasyon sa pinas sabi nila hindi pa din talaga ginagamit ang new roman missal sa mga english na misa.

That's because of the gradual implementation, which vic_romero posted :) Pero sa ibang bansa, mandatory na kaagad na 'yung kumpletong revised translation ang gamitin. Sa atin, inunti-unti lang (which is both good and bad).

Just to reiterate: sa ibang diyosesis (specifically, the Archdiocese of Lingayen-Dagupan in Pangasinan), wala silang ek-ek na "gradual implementation". Pinwersa ni Archbishop Soc Villegas na gamitin na kaagad ang buong revised English translation sa mga English masses sa lahat ng mga parokya sa lalawigan ng Pangasinan. (I know this, kasi ilang ulit na akong nakapagsisimba doon sa Pangasinan the past few months.)

And, partida, kabisado na kaagad ng mga Pangasinense ang bagong translation...that, after just one month's notice. (Makes you wonder why the CBCP WON'T and DON'T want to do it in Metro Manila :P )

@D'MECC - Yung sa tagalog mukhang matatagalan pa yun siguro, sadyang inuna lang ang english translation kasi dito magmumula ang basehan ng pagsalin sa ibang wika / lenguahe. ilang taon ang gugugulin para makumpleto ang pagsasalin.

This is incorrect. Each translation is---actually and ideally, SHOULD---be based on the original Latin text of the mass. Same thing with the mass in Spanish, French, German, Greek, Japanese, Chinese, etc....they are all based from the Latin text. Ideally, ang Tagalog translation ay hindi nakabatay sa Ingles kundi sa Latin. This is in accordance with the stipulations of the General Instruction on the Roman Missal, which states that:

389. It is the competence of the Conferences of Bishops in the first place to prepare and approve an edition of this Roman Missal in the authorized vernacular languages, for use in the regions under their care, once their decisions have been accorded the recognitio of the Apostolic See.[149]

The Roman Missal, whether in Latin or in lawfully approved vernacular translations, is to be published in its entirety.

...

392. It will also be up to the Conferences of Bishops to prepare, by means of careful study, a translation of the other texts, so that, even though the character of each language is respected, the meaning of the original Latin text is fully and faithfully rendered. In accomplishing this task, it is expedient to take account of the different literary genres used at Mass, such as the presidential prayers, the antiphons, the acclamations, the responses, the litanies of supplication, and so on.

Source: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20030317_ordinamento-messale_en.html


But, unfortunately, that's not what happened with the Tagalog translation. When the Holy Mass was translated into the various vernacular languages after the reforms of Vatican II, the published Tagalog translation appeared to have been based on the ENGLISH translation instead of the Latin text. How do we know this? Because Tagalog inherited the now-corrected mistakes/mistranslations of the English mass (and still have them now). Case in point:

Latin:
Et cum spiritum tuum.

Correct English translation (now restored in the revised 2011 translations):
And with your spirit

Original (and now obsolete) 1971 English translation:
And also with you

Current Tagalog translation:
At sumainyo rin.

A correct hypothetical Tagalog translation which is in harmony with the Latin text:
At kapiling/kasama ng inyong espiritu/diwa.


(Had to emphasize the "hypothetical" para klaro na wala pa naman talagang ganoong translation...mabuti na 'yung malinaw, hehehe :P )

Makes you really wonder why the Tagalog translation was based on the English translation instead of the original Latin text, which is not in compliance with the stipulations of the GIRM.

Hindi ako familiar sa translation ng misa sa ibang non-Tagalog languages, but so I heard, the Cebuano-Visayan translation does NOT have the mistranslation that the Tagalog translation has. (Can other non-Visayan/non-Tagalog onliners confirm this?)

Now, given that the CBCP seems to care more about (and is obsessed) the RH Bill than in making sure that the liturgy is respected (liturgical dance, anyone?), hindi na ako umaasa na maiisip ng CBCP na i-revise ang Tagalog translation ng misa maski na ni-correct na 'yung English translation. Asa pa :P

Hi guys,

Tanong ko lang po, may schedule ang implementation ng English Translation di ba? Like for example this August, Gloria ang dapat ma-implement. Does this mean pwede na din namin kantahin yun bagong song with new translation ng Gloria this August or we should wait for December 2012? Please advise. Thank you.

Hmm...the goal of the gradual implementation (from what I've heard) is to make people aware of the changes, one mass part at a time, rather than feed them the entire translation which may be too much for them ("too many changes! too little time!"). In theory, dapat ay huwag munang biglain kaagad ang mga tao by giving them the entire revised translation.

But...keep in mind that sooner or later, the entire translation will be in force na rin naman. Plus what the gradual implementation aims is to enforce the new translations for certain parts of the mass. Hindi naman binawal ng gradual implementation na gamitin 'yung ibang translations, walang sinasabing ganun sa memo ni Fr. Genaro Diwa. (Read it to believe it ;) )

So...my best advise is to ask your parish priest if you can introduce the new Gloria early on (para at least informed siya). With Powerpoint slides, if you wish. And have that permission in writing, para hindi kayo magkaproblema. 'Pag pumayag siya, then go! :D

knightdom
12.08.28, 03:47 PM
salamat titopao, sasabihan ko yung nagsabi sa akin about this. may nagsabi lang kasi sa akin na ganun daw yun, pero now naliwanagan na ako. salamat ulit.

regarding naman sa gradual implementation, mas mainam pa din yung naging personal experience ko na, after communion e may module na sinusunod na every week isang bahagi ng mga pagbabago ang idi-discuss at bibigyan ang tao to practice tapos kung complete na yung mga modules e full implementation na. anyway may slides naman kaming ginagamit for the entire mass lalo na sa mga dapat response ng tao (sa case namin) at may mga pew cards at yung choir ay praktisado din sa new responses.

titopao
12.08.29, 08:10 AM
regarding naman sa gradual implementation, mas mainam pa din yung naging personal experience ko na, after communion e may module na sinusunod na every week isang bahagi ng mga pagbabago ang idi-discuss at bibigyan ang tao to practice tapos kung complete na yung mga modules e full implementation na. anyway may slides naman kaming ginagamit for the entire mass lalo na sa mga dapat response ng tao (sa case namin) at may mga pew cards at yung choir ay praktisado din sa new responses.

Or better yet...bakit hindi mamigay ng photocopies ng mga changes sa English translation ng misa (or maybe even the entire mass responses) at ipakalat ito sa mga tao before/after every mass? :)

I mean...in some parishes I've been to, namimigay sila ng mga flyers ng catechesis ng new mass responses. Pero usually, para lang doon sa mass part na in force for the month. So naisip ko lang...they might as well distribute flyers of the complete missal na rin, 'di ba? That's not hard to do ;)

Or magbenta sila ng mga bagong labas na complete missal sa kanilang mga parish book shops. May nilabas ang Episcopal Commission on Liturgy na brochure-type missal sa halagang 5 pesos, at sumunod namang naglabas ang Sambuhay ng kanilang version (in the typical newsletter-type missal) sa halagang 2 pesos. Pareho silang available sa St. Paul's :)

(Might as well plug it here...malapit na ang Manila Bookfair sa September, sa SMX. 'Di ko lang sure kung mabebenta ang mga nasabing missal for a discount, but for sure ito na ang pinakamagandang pagkakataon na bumili ng mga nasabing missal in bulk, sa exhibition booth ng St. Paul's :)

sjclc
12.08.29, 08:20 PM
Et cum spiritum tuum

It's 'et cum spiritu tuo'. :)

Also, the present Tagalog translation of the Mass was not completely based on English, nor can we assume anything about that fact. For example, the "Gloria in Excelsis Deo" is rather accurately translated, with the exception of the word 'Papuri' (praise) being used instead of 'Luwalhati' (glory). In this sense, we can say that the Tagalog translation is closer to the Latin, but is however flawed on many parts.

titopao
12.08.30, 08:39 AM
It's 'et cum spiritu tuo'. :)

Nyahahahaha LOL you got me there :P

Also, the present Tagalog translation of the Mass was not completely based on English, nor can we assume anything about that fact. For example, the "Gloria in Excelsis Deo" is rather accurately translated, with the exception of the word 'Papuri' (praise) being used instead of 'Luwalhati' (glory). In this sense, we can say that the Tagalog translation is closer to the Latin, but is however flawed on many parts.

Sabagay. Although may mga parts din na hawig sa English translation, kaya't hindi talaga maiwasang mapansin ang halos pagkakagaya ng Tagalog sa original English translation:

Latin: Dignum et iustum est.
Orig. translation: It is right to give Him thanks and praise
New translation: It is right and just.
Tagalog translation: Marapat na Siya'y pasalamatan.

Latin: Dòmine, non sum dignus, ut intres sub tectum meum...
Orig. translation: Lord, I am not worthy to receive you...
New translation: Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof...
Tagalog translation: Panginoon, hindi ako karapat-dapat na magpatuloy sa Iyo....

d0d0fer
12.08.30, 09:02 AM
Sabagay. Although may mga parts din na hawig sa English translation, kaya't hindi talaga maiwasang mapansin ang halos pagkakagaya ng Tagalog sa original English translation:

Latin: Dignum et iustum est.
Orig. translation: It is right to give Him thanks and praise
New translation: It is right and just.
Tagalog translation: Marapat na Siya'y pasalamatan.

Meron Tagalog translation na hindi niyo naabutan dahil 1970s namin ginamit at hindi pa kayo pinapanganak noon. Halimbawa,

Orig. Tagalog translation: Marapat at matuwid

Binanggit na ito ni Alex sa thread na ito maraming beses na... :)

titopao
12.08.30, 10:50 AM
Meron Tagalog translation na hindi niyo naabutan dahil 1970s namin ginamit at hindi pa kayo pinapanganak noon. Halimbawa,

Orig. Tagalog translation: Marapat at matuwid

Binanggit na ito ni Alex sa thread na ito maraming beses na... :)

Yup, I think nabanggit iyan ni Alex ilang beses na :) 'Di ko na naabutan sa misa, pero natatandaan ko na mayroon kami dati na misal (late 1970s or early 1980s pa yata) na meron nitong mga lumang Tagalog translation. Sayang at nawala na 'yung misal na 'yun :(

Alexander
12.08.30, 12:10 PM
Did someone called me.... :P hehehe


Latin: Dòmine, non sum dignus, ut intres sub tectum meum...
Orig. translation: Lord, I am not worthy to receive you...
New translation: Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof...
Tagalog translation: Panginoon, hindi ako karapat-dapat na magpatuloy sa Iyo....

Ang natatandaan ko na part dito ay "Panginoon, hindi ako karapatdapat na magpatuloy sa iyo, ngunit sa isang salita Mo lamang ay gagaling na ang aking kaluluwa" (not sure of the exact text pero parang ganyan)

@titopao... oo nga sayang at wala na yatang makita si Google na lumang translation sa Vernacular Tagalog text... tandang tanda ko pa (kasi matanda na LOL)

O sa mga naghahanap ng FREE DOWNLOAD ng MISSAL

http://fin.sdb.ph/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/new_roman_missal.pdf

d0d0fer
12.08.30, 01:06 PM
@titopao... oo nga sayang at wala na yatang makita si Google na lumang translation sa Vernacular Tagalog text... tandang tanda ko pa (kasi matanda na LOL)

Yup, I think nabanggit iyan ni Alex ilang beses na :) 'Di ko na naabutan sa misa, pero natatandaan ko na mayroon kami dati na misal (late 1970s or early 1980s pa yata) na meron nitong mga lumang Tagalog translation. Sayang at nawala na 'yung misal na 'yun :(

Makikita pa ang lumang Tagalog translation sa Misal Romano ni Msgr. Jose C. Abriol. Hanap tayo...

Alexander
12.08.30, 01:09 PM
Sige d0d0... sana meron pa

vic_romero
12.08.31, 03:10 AM
Mulâ sa 1997 Sakramentaryong inihandâ ni Monseñor Abriol.

titopao
12.08.31, 09:39 AM
Pardon my french, but...pwet na malupet. Tama ba ang nakikita ko at nakaka-ilang revisions na pala ang missal sa Tagalog? :O Not counting the various editions published by each individual publishers?!?! :O At hindi natin ito lahat napapansin?!?!?!? :O

Alexander
12.08.31, 11:01 AM
Ang natatandaan ko na part dito ay "Panginoon, hindi ako karapatdapat na magpatuloy sa iyo, ngunit sa isang salita Mo lamang ay gagaling na ang aking kaluluwa" (not sure of the exact text pero parang ganyan)



missed the "sa aking katawan"

@vic_romero... 1997 lang ba ito.... diba 70's or 80's edition pa nagsimula ang salin na ito? Tapos ang kasalukuyang Tagalog translation ay ibinase sa saling Ingles (2nd edition)

Tama si titopao, di na natin napansin ang mga translation na ito.



EDIT.... nabasa ko sa Wikipedia na ang salin sa Tagalog ay 1982... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagalog_language#Religious_literature

When the Second Vatican Council, (specifically the Sacrosanctum Concilium) permitted the universal prayers to be translated into vernacular languages, the Catholic Bishops' Conference of the Philippines was one of the first to translate the Roman Missal into Tagalog. In fact, the Roman Missal in Tagalog was published as early as 1982, while not published in English until 1985.


=================================

I wonder how the translation in this one looks like?

http://cdn2.sulitstatic.com/images/2012/0622/083450848_08220755d04f3066c58c1a221d6800cbc749ef2e 6c52e5bd.jpg

http://cdn2.sulitstatic.com/images/2012/0622/083450491_thumbnail08232835374f9d15019a9e458d4bafa 8e13a5cbe9f061ddd3.jpg

http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/view+classifieds/id/5840607/ANTIQUE++VINTAGE+1945+CATHOLIC+SUNDAY+MISSAL+FILIP INO+LATIN+MISSAL?referralKeywords=antique+1945+tag alog+missal&event=Search+Ranking,Position,1-1,1

mark_chua
12.09.01, 09:30 AM
Mark:

Heto ang schedule sa Arsodiyosesis ng Maynila:

http://www.rcam.org/news/642-gradual-implementation-of-the-new-english-translation-of-the-roman-missal

Does this mean, by September, pwede na namin kantahin ang Gloria or recite pa din po?

vic_romero
12.09.01, 01:22 PM
Does this mean, by September, pwede na namin kantahin ang Gloria or recite pa din po?

Sa Arsodiyosesis ng Maynila, puede nang kantahin ang Papuri sa Setyembre.

Mula Hunyo, hindi na gagamitin ang "and also with you."

Mula Hulyo gagamitin na ang bagong "I confess."

===

June
And with your Spirit (Greeting, Gospel, Preface, Final Blessing)


July
I confess


August
Gloria


September
Apostle’s Creed


October
Pray brethren
Memorial Acclamation


November
Invitation to Communion (Lord, I am not worthy)


December
Full Implementation

marlo_27
12.09.23, 01:35 PM
*Hello po sa mga bukaspalad members and moderators! C: , may itatanong lang po ako regarding sa MYSTERIES OF FAITH, paano po gamitin ang A,B and C na mystery of faith.
*Kasi kagaya ngayon po ay nasa Ordinary time po tayo, ano po ang dapat kantahin A (We proclaim..), or B (When we eat...)? May information po kayo paano yung guidelines sa paggamit ng A,B and C na mystery of faith lalo na sa different liturgical seasons that we have. C:
* Kasi sa Mass of St. Francis yung mystery of faith nila nakalagay na ang A (We proclaim..) ay pang ORDINARY TIME 18-33 sundays and ang B (When we eat...) ay pang CHRISTMAS, ADVENT and ORDINARY TIME 1-17 sundays, at saka yung C ay pangLENT and EASTER sya kantahin same din sa PEOPLE'S MASS score sheet na nabasa ko po. Nakakaconfuse kung saan magfollow, and sa SAMBUHAY MISSALETTE iba din po. For clarification lang po, para malinawan and also to let know yung ibang choir sa Pilipinas na member here sa BPOC, laking tulong po nito. C:

vic_romero
12.09.25, 01:46 AM
*Hello po sa mga bukaspalad members and moderators! C: , may itatanong lang po ako regarding sa MYSTERIES OF FAITH, paano po gamitin ang A,B and C na mystery of faith.
*Kasi kagaya ngayon po ay nasa Ordinary time po tayo, ano po ang dapat kantahin A (We proclaim..), or B (When we eat...)? May information po kayo paano yung guidelines sa paggamit ng A,B and C na mystery of faith lalo na sa different liturgical seasons that we have. C:
* Kasi sa Mass of St. Francis yung mystery of faith nila nakalagay na ang A (We proclaim..) ay pang ORDINARY TIME 18-33 sundays and ang B (When we eat...) ay pang CHRISTMAS, ADVENT and ORDINARY TIME 1-17 sundays, at saka yung C ay pangLENT and EASTER sya kantahin same din sa PEOPLE'S MASS score sheet na nabasa ko po. Nakakaconfuse kung saan magfollow, and sa SAMBUHAY MISSALETTE iba din po. For clarification lang po, para malinawan and also to let know yung ibang choir sa Pilipinas na member here sa BPOC, laking tulong po nito. C:

===


Tanóng: Alíng misterio ng pananampalatayà ang dapat gamitin: A, B, C?
Sagót: Kahit alín sa tatló.

Tanóng: Kailán dapat gamitin ang misterio ng pananampalatayà A?
Sagót: Kahit kailán ninyó gustó.

Tanóng: Kailán dapat gamitin ang misterio ng pananampalatayà B?
Sagót: Kahit kailán ninyó gustó.

Tanóng: Kailán dapat gamitin ang misterio ng pananampalatayà C?
Sagót: Kahit kailán ninyó gustó.

Tanóng: Alín sa tatlóng misterio ng pananampalatayà ang pinakamahalagá: A, B, C?
Sagót: Walâ, ang tatló ay magkakasínghalagá.

Tanóng: Puede bang kantahíng lahát ang tatló sa isáng Misa?
Sagót: Hindî. Isá lang dapat.

Tanóng: Puede bang kantahíng lahát ang dalawá sa isáng Misa?
Sagót: Hindî. Isá lang dapat.

Tanóng: Puede bang palaging kantahín lamang ang misterio ng pananampalatayà A?
Sagót: Puede, kung iyóng ang gustó ninyó, pero hindî ba nakakasawà iyón?

Tanóng: Puede bang palaging kantahín lamang ang misterio ng pananampalatayà B?
Sagót: Puede, kung iyóng ang gustó ninyó, pero hindî ba nakakasawà iyón?

Tanóng: Puede bang palaging kantahín lamang ang misterio ng pananampalatayà C?
Sagót: Puede, kung iyóng ang gustó ninyó, pero hindî ba nakakasawà iyón?

Tanóng: Puede bang hindî kantahín kailanmán ang misterio ng pananampalatayà A?
Sagót: Puede, kung iyóng ang gustó ninyó, pero hindî ba kayó rin ang mawawalán?

Tanóng: Puede bang hindî kantahín kailanmán ang misterio ng pananampalatayà B?
Sagót: Puede, kung iyóng ang gustó ninyó, pero hindî ba kayó rin ang mawawalán?

Tanóng: Puede bang hindî kantahín kailanmán ang misterio ng pananampalatayà C?
Sagót: Puede, kung iyóng ang gustó ninyó, pero hindî ba kayó rin ang mawawalán?

Tanóng: Puede bang kantahín ang tatló, parang round-robin, isá bawat Linggó?
Sagót: Puedeng-puede.

sjclc
12.09.25, 06:48 AM
May pinakita po sa aking libro ang isang 'enthusiast' na nakasama ko minsan sa pagseserve sa Tridentine Mass (server siya, part ako ng schola) at bagamat hindi siya 'missal' na Tagalog, ay isa siyang 'study guide' ng Tridentine Mass in Latin na may pagsasalin sa Tagalog. Do'n ko nga po unang nakita 'yung "at sa inyong kaluluwa" :P

Alexander
12.10.24, 08:21 AM
I don't know if this has already been shared here. If you prefer CHANT music of the new English translation of the mass, you can download the sheet music here for free (just don't re-publish and sell them, okay?)

http://www.icelweb.org/musicfolder/openmusic.php (just scroll down to the "Order of the Mass")

Hope this helps.

JR Medina
12.11.13, 05:39 AM
Hi! I've got some questions, if anybody can share their thoughts.

Yun bang, "Holy Holy Holy Lord God of power and might" na gagawin yatang "God of host" para sa lahat ng parishes, or pwedeng tumanggi?

Next question, yun bang Our Father, officially for all na dapat "hallowed, Thy, trespasses" ang gagamiting words? Hindi na pwede ang holy be, sins, your, etc. Para sa lahat ng parishes, or pwedeng tumanggi?

Nalilito na me hahaha sa dami ng changes na totoo tsaka changes na hindi totoo hehehe. Paano pa kaya yung congregation hehehe

NikNoK
12.11.13, 08:15 AM
Hi, JR!

Tama, ganoon nga ang mga bagong translation ng New Roman Missal para sa buong Simbahang Katoliko; sa lahat ng parokya at Diyosesis ng Pilipinas.

Hindi makabubuti ang pagtanggi. Mainam na masuportahan natin ang mga pagbabagong ito at tulungan ang congregation na yakapin din ang pagbabagong ito.

Kung hindi pa tayo handa para sa mga awitin na may mga bagong teksto, mas mainam na hindi na lang awitin pero nararapat pa ring bigkasin ang bagong teksto.

May mga paghahanda na ginawa ang Simbahan para hindi naman mabigla masyado ang mga tao. Maraming Diyosesis simula pa lang nung Hulyo na unti-unting ipinakilala at ipinaliwanag ang mga pagbabago katulad na nga ng sinabi ni Vic Romero:

Sa Arsodiyosesis ng Maynila, puede nang kantahin ang Papuri sa Setyembre.

Mula Hunyo, hindi na gagamitin ang "and also with you."

Mula Hulyo gagamitin na ang bagong "I confess."

===

June
And with your Spirit (Greeting, Gospel, Preface, Final Blessing)


July
I confess


August
Gloria


September
Apostle’s Creed


October
Pray brethren
Memorial Acclamation


November
Invitation to Communion (Lord, I am not worthy)


December
Full Implementation

Alexander
12.11.15, 11:49 AM
Hi! I've got some questions, if anybody can share their thoughts.

Yun bang, "Holy Holy Holy Lord God of power and might" na gagawin yatang "God of host" para sa lahat ng parishes, or pwedeng tumanggi?

Next question, yun bang Our Father, officially for all na dapat "hallowed, Thy, trespasses" ang gagamiting words? Hindi na pwede ang holy be, sins, your, etc. Para sa lahat ng parishes, or pwedeng tumanggi?

Nalilito na me hahaha sa dami ng changes na totoo tsaka changes na hindi totoo hehehe. Paano pa kaya yung congregation hehehe

Unahin ko ang "The Lord's Prayer", please see the attached clarification from CBCP.
The Lord's Prayer - http://www.icelweb.org/musicfolder/openpdf.php?file=LordsPrayer.pdf


Second, The "Sanctus" in its 2010 ICEL (see link below), una Hindi pwedeng tumanggi, pangalawa hindi po ito "YATA" kasi definitely ito ang gagamiting English Text sa lahat ng English liturgy. Hope this helps.

Link - http://www.icelweb.org/musicfolder/openpdf.php?file=Sanctus.pdf



September
Apostle’s Creed

[/COLOR][/I]

Nik... sa TV Mass sa ABS-CBN, I was surprised to hear that they are using the NICENE CREED instead of the APOSTLES CREED. Siguro nagtataka yung mga nagsisimba na "malaki" ang pinagbago ng Text.... I don't know if they explained why the choose to use that instead of the new text for the Apostles Creed. Pero personally, I prefer the NICENE Creed .

jessabenir
12.11.27, 01:40 PM
I have attached the order of the mass zip file containing the following for your reference:


Annotated Mass.pdf - Excerpts from the English translation of The Roman Missal 2010 (Short version)
Order of the Mass 2011.pdf - Excerpts from the English translation of The Roman Missal 2010 (Long version)
Peoples Parts.pdf - USCCB comparison of peoples parts (past vs present)
Priests Parts.pdf - USCCB comparison of priests parts (past vs present)
The Revised Translation for Responses during Mass.pdf -Comparison, another source


Here in the US, We are almost 1 year into the changes and it took us a while to get accustomed to the new responses. It was confusing at first but our Archdiocese was really good at disseminating the information. Also, for high masses (with the Bishops and/or Cardinal) we usually have a Rev Fr to review our Reader Guides before they were printed en masse, so that really helped us.

Finally, I believe the key to memorizing these responses is to attend as many masses you can. :) The more masses, the more blessings...

crissy_21
13.02.09, 07:27 PM
to the Moderators: paki nalang po if this doesn't belong here. Salamat po.

Tanong lang po ako regarding:

a. Meron po bang strict instruction or guideline on "repetitions" on the ordinary of the mass: Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus-Benedictus, Misterium Fidei and Agnus Dei?


Like on the composition of Dan Schutte (Mass of Christ the Savior)

Glory to God, Glory to God, Glory to God in the highest
and on earth peace, on earth peace to people of goodwill.

Holy... Heaven and earth are full, are full of your glory. Hosanna...
Blessed is He who comes, who comes in the name of the Lord. Hosanna...

Save us, Save us, Savior of the world...


Any advise or feedback with this matter will be very helpful in order to inform
other choir groups as well.

God bless...

ronyu02
13.02.16, 08:36 AM
Repetitions are allowed as long as the text is still faithful. One only has to look at the polyphonic compositions of Palestrina et al for examples. :)

d0d0fer
13.02.16, 09:11 AM
Meron po bang strict instruction or guideline on "repetitions" on the ordinary of the mass: Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus-Benedictus, Misterium Fidei and Agnus Dei?

May sagot dito >> http://www.bukaspalad.com/board/showthread.php?p=156130#post156130