PDA

View Full Version : Sanctus - ICEL 2010


Alexander
11.01.24, 10:25 AM
Dagdag ko lang: in order to understand why the translation (and the original Latin text) used was "hosts" instead of "power and might", it's essential that we understand that the word "hosts" refers to a group of angels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavenly_host). The word itself appears not just in Isaiah but in a host (no pun intended) of other Bible books (including the Revelation...check the Wikipedia article I linked, and you'll find some Bible verses where the word "host" was mentioned).



I picked up from what titopao started and maybe, it is a good thing to just start a new thread for us to be aware on what has transpired or what was revised in the new english liturgy (ICEL 2010)

To reinforce this.... the new text of Sanctus... uses "God of Hosts (http://www.icelweb.org/musicfolder/openpdf.php?file=Sanctus.pdf)"

Full text...
Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God of hosts.
Heaven and earth are full of your glory.
Hosanna in the highest.
Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.
Hosanna in the highest.

titopao
11.01.24, 10:34 AM
Sa Tagalog versions, dahil familiar tayo dito, madaling bilangin kung iilan ang gumagamit ng "Panginoong Diyos [na] makapangyarihan" at "Panginoong Diyos ng mga hukbo." (And mas madali rin mag-adapt/mag-switch ng lyrics from one to the other, if you know how to do it well.) So para sa akin kung, isyu yung dapat ay yung isang translation "dapat" ang gagamitin, you only have to switch songs or switch the lyrics.

Sa English version...konti lang ang alam kong English na (sung) mass responses. Ilang/ano-anong versions ng "Lord/God of hosts" at "Lord Almighty"? Especially yung mga old Sanctus na hindi nalalayo sa (re)translation ng ICEL 2010?

Alexander
11.01.24, 10:50 AM
Isa pang note to add... yung revised texts affects the English Liturgy at least sa mga bansa na member ng ICEL (kasama ang Pilipinas).

Dito sa Oz (at least sa Archdiocese of Melbourne), mandatory na by Advent of this year ay 100 % na implemented ang revised english text sa lahat ng mass

titopao
11.01.24, 10:56 AM
Isa pang note to add... yung revised texts affects the English Liturgy at least sa mga bansa na member ng ICEL (kasama ang Pilipinas).

Hopefully. From what I read from other blogs whose authors are involved in the liturgical matters of their own parishes and archdioceses, the CBCP is (supposedly) not keen on implementing some (if not all) of the directives that came from the Vatican. Allegedly, kung hindi daw ito naayon sa agenda ng CBCP (whatever that is) or kung ito ay kontra daw sa ilang mga reporma o pagbabago na gustong panatilihin/gawin ng CBCP kahit na minsan ay taliwas sa napagkasunduan na sa Roma.

Case in point: Summorum pontificum.

At any rate, iintayin ko rin na lumabas ang mga official books na meron nang new (re)translation. Whether magagamit ko siya kaagad or hindi, at least meron akong dagdag sa koleksyon ko :P hehehe

Alexander
11.01.24, 11:10 AM
Talaga... meron pa silang "agenda" na nalalaman ha....

Speaking of the "Summorum pontificum" Motu Propio Data.... sinabi ni Pope Benedict XVI...


In conclusion, dear Brothers, I very much wish to stress that these new norms do not in any way lessen your own authority and responsibility, either for the liturgy or for the pastoral care of your faithful. Each Bishop, in fact, is the moderator of the liturgy in his own Diocese (cf. Sacrosanctum Concilium (http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html), 22: “Sacrae Liturgiae moderatio ab Ecclesiae auctoritate unice pendet quae quidem est apud Apostolicam Sedem et, ad normam iuris, apud Episcopum”).
Nothing is taken away, then, from the authority of the Bishop, whose role remains that of being watchful that all is done in peace and serenity. Should some problem arise which the parish priest cannot resolve, the local Ordinary will always be able to intervene, in full harmony, however, with all that has been laid down by the new norms of the Motu Proprio.


Ang pangit lang na lalabas kung ibat iba pa ang lalabas na Sacramentary kung magkakanya kanya pang edition ang individual Dioceses... Sayang na lang ang ipini-preach na "Universality of the Catholic Church" kung di man magkaisa sa pagsunod.

Medyo OT; akala ko pa ang isa sa mga vows ng mga kaparian ay "obedience" :P

titopao
11.01.24, 11:21 AM
Medyo OT; akala ko pa ang isa sa mga vows ng mga kaparian ay "obedience" :P

The way I understand this is not as simple as obedience to the Pope alone. Basically, a priest swears obedience to his arch/bishop, whoever that prelate is. This is why it's important for regular priests to become incardinated (accredited in an arch/diocese) before they are allowed to administer the sacraments in their diocese (and also, why a priest is required to show his celebret when saying mass or officiating a wedding in a parish that's not his own, as proof of his good standing in his own diocese).

The arch/bishop, of course, is presumed to be obedient to the Pope as far as their place in the hierarchy is concerned. In turn, arch/bishops are expected to administer their dioceses in good faith and in accordance with the spirit of their obedience to the Pope, for the good of the entire Church. And that being the case, it follows that the priests are also expected to be faithful to the Pope with respect to their responding to the pastoral needs in their parish or assignments.

(In the case of religious orders: priests belonging to a religious order follow their general superior (for the entire order, e.g. the Jesuit order) or provincial (for the order's divisions or "provinces", e.g. the Philippine province of the Jesuits), and the order's superiors may be held accountable to the Pope.)

(Someone, especially theologians, are free to correct any misinterpretations I may have made. Corrections are very much appreciated :) )

mootboot12
11.10.09, 11:17 PM
The new SANCTUS ay may "Lord God of Hosts" ... In my compilation of Mass songbook, i replaced the old version with the Revised Version sa MASS OF LIGHT (David Haas), MASS FOR A NEW WORLD (Haas), MASS OF CREATION (Haugen), HERITAGE MASS (Alstott)

Alexander
11.10.20, 01:57 PM
I do not wish to create a new thread pero pag humaba ang discussion, I'll just split this later... Note that this is the current English Mass used in the Philippines (Aired 9 Oct 2011 in Studio 23)

See an example of Sanctus which was trimmed in context just to fit in the music.
7DBvj5htqes

Time: 1:02 to 1:40 (Sanctus)

Lyrics
Holy Holy Holy Lord
Heaven and Earth are filled with your Glory
Hosanna in the Highest
Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord
Hosanna, Hosanna in the Highest

Which line is missing?


Reference: http://pinoy101tv.blogspot.com/2011/10/sunday-tv-mass-09-oct-2011-by-studio-23.html

d0d0fer
11.10.20, 02:59 PM
OT: That's chorale director/pianist Ronald "Rannie" Bello @ the 1:09 mark. Ang daming mikropono, mga labindalawa yata ang bilang ko! :)

Alexander
11.10.21, 08:37 AM
OT: Tigitigisa yata sila ng mic d0d0... meaning pag merong sumabit ay dinig mo agad, kaya ganon sila ka confident na bigyan ng individual mic :P

Back to topic :)

titopao
11.10.21, 09:40 AM
OT: Tigitigisa yata sila ng mic d0d0... meaning pag merong sumabit ay dinig mo agad, kaya ganon sila ka confident na bigyan ng individual mic :P

That choir almost always sounds like there's only one singer in the bass section LOL