[casper89]

On our recent seminar where we tackled the mass siyempre andudun yung mga songs sa mass nasabi nung nagpaseminar na liturgist sa amin, mali daw ang pagkanta ng Kordero na mabilis ang tempo nagbigay pa nga siya ng concrete examples na yung kay Arboleda and yung kay Hondiveros kasi it is innapropriate na lively yung pagkanta ng Kordero where as the message is asking for forgiveness, how is that po?

[Sir Michael]

The Church documents does not give directions on how each part of the Mass should be sung. It is mainly because the Musical Judgment for choosing songs is left in the hands of the music ministries. Cultures vary.

Bukas Palad mentioned in their Tinapay ng Buhay album that although more uplifting forms of the Agnus Dei were created, it is sometimes preferred that a more solemn version be used as to express the faithful's yearning for God's mercy.
(I don't currently have the album jacket so I can't give you the exact quote)

"Sufficiency of artistic expression, however, is not the same as musical style, for 'the Church has not adopted any particular style of art as her own. She has admitted styles from every period, in keeping with the natural characteristics and conditions of peoples and the needs of the various rites.' Thus, in recent times, the Church has consistently recognized and freely welcomed the use of various styles of music as an aid to liturgical worship."
- Sing to the Lord 136 (quoting Sacrosanctum Concilium 123)

So there. You, kung ikaw, or the music ministry should exercise their musical judgment to see if it is fit for the Liturgy. The version you choose should also help the people express their faith through song. Papaano kung mabagal nga at malungkot yung Kordero ng Diyos na gagamitin niyo, pero sobrang hirap naman sundan at hindi makasabay ang tao? And then siyempre if the version adheres to the prescribed liturgical text.

Click the link above of Sing to the Lord by USCCB for more information about choosing songs for the Liturgy.

[titopao]

Dagdag ko lang sa mga comments ni Sir Michael:

* Because the Agnus Dei is part of the text of the liturgy of the Mass, it cannot be changed. Especially kung Latin ang kinakanta mo. Pero kung translation naman ito, it should one of the official/approved translations from the Latin text.

Why do I say this? Because many people think that what shouldn't be changed is the vernacular translation of the liturgical text. This isn't entirely true: as you can see, by 2011, even the English translation will be changed (the retranslation of the Mass is complete, but it will be promulgated next year). Pag sinasabi na hindi pwedeng baguhin ang lyrics ng sagot sa misa, ang naiisip kaagad ng mga tao ay yung alam nilang sagot sa misa like, say, "Kordero ng Diyos na nag-aalis ng mga kasalanan ng sanlibutan, maawa Ka sa amin / ipagkaloob Mo sa amin ang Kapayapaan." But what the Vatican meant was that the official (i.e. Latin) text shouldn't be changed. And the Vatican gives leeway to the episcopal commissions to do retranslations if necessary, as long as it adheres to the original Latin texts (and its intended meanings) and also reflects contemporary language use (for example, wala na kayong makikitang gamit ng "thou/thy/thee" sa mga English translations ng misa ngayon).

I don't think this will likely happen in the Tagalog translation, but let me say this: huwag tayong makampante na yung alam natin na talagang translation ng Kordero o ng ibang sagot sa misa ay mabago kung kaya ito ay "set in stone" (so to speak). Baka in five years, for example, biglang magbago ang ihip ng hangin sa CBCP at maisipan din nila na kailangang i-retranslate ang Tagalog na misa, which will render all the Korderos (and, say, Papuri sa Diyos songs) we know as obsolete




Which leads me to...

* Vatican guidelines are meant to be general, it gives the dioceses more leeway in making adaptations according to the various cultures and situation of each locality. But at the same time, those adaptations are never meant to subvert the Vatican's intention in keeping the spirit of the Mass. (Something for us all to ponder.)

This is why, the Vatican didn't specify any specifics on how the Kordero should be sung, in terms of how slow it should be (or, say, whether it should be in the major or minor key). The current Vatican guidelines are specific only on a few certain things such as, say, the absolute prohibition on using percussions during Lent (and especially on the Kyrie throughout the liturgical year, if I'm not mistaken), and the omission of the Gloria during Advent and Lent. For all I care, the Vatican also didn't say that the Alleluia and the Gloria has to be always cheerful, pupwede rin itong kantahin ng malungkot na katulad ng para sa misa ng libing. (Pero sabihin n'yo sa kin, sinong choir naman ang may gustong gumawa nun? )

Na-mention na rin lang ang mga notes sa songbook ng TnB...the three judgments (theological, pastoral and musical, if I'm not mistaken)found on one of the TnB songbooks are extremely helpful, but don't confuse it to mean that it's the same guidelines provided by the Vatican (as with any other guideline issued by your local parish/diocese/archdiocese). Mas generic ang sa Vatican, and it only has certain restrictions and guidelines.



One last thing....

* "Sing to the Lord" was written by thE USCCB (US Conference of Catholic Bishops). As such, some provisions are applicable only in the US, but not in the Philippines. (I found this the hard way during some of my trips abroad, that how we think the mass should be is not the same in other countries.) So don't treat "Sing to the Lord" as the be-all and end-all of liturgical music, it is not valid outside the United States. Use some helpful bits if you want, but don't treat it as the answer to all your problems about choosing songs for the mass.

Ang talagang kulang na lang, gaya ng lagi kong sinasabi, ay maglabas din an CBCP ng isang kahalintulad na dokumento na akmang-akma para sa mga Pilipino. Gawin lang nila iyon, malulutas na halos lahat (kundi man lahat) ng mga lagi nating nababasa na mga issues/problems regarind liturgical music dito sa Pinas. Until then, wala tayong ibang magagawa kundi maghintay

[Sir Michael]

Thanks, titopao.

It's really difficult for music ministries in the Philippines to find comprehensive guidelines concerning the use of music in the Liturgy.
I even saw a syllabus of a workshop of Fr. JBoy Gonzales which has the same structure as Sing to the Lord.
Wala kasi tayong mapagkunan ng local resources and documents. Kung meron man, hindi sila popular, kaya we are most likely to adhere to the guidelines set by the USCCB.

The three judgments are Liturgical, Pastoral, and Musical.
I suppose the Tinapay ng Buhay Songbook referred to Sing to the Lord for notes concerning that. Dun lang naman sa document na iyon ata makikita ang three judgments.

CBCP, I think, has other priorities in mind. The alleviation of the poor, education of children, justice for the oppressed, at iba pa, which is really a good thing. The Philippines really need the Church.

We just hope that someday CPCB will publish documents din for Filipinos. Maybe music in the Liturgy is not really in their priority rin dahil siguro they know that we refer too to the guidelines set by the other Conferences of Catholic Bishops such as USCCB.

In short. Kayo na muna ang bahala, keeping in mind the prescribed liturgical text, the kind of people in the parish, and the aesthetic quality of the song

[titopao]

Should have qualified my statement more

I think there's a committee within CBCP that takes care of liturgical matters, in the same way that other committees take care of, say, social action matters (which is the top priority of the CBCP) and perhaps even public communication matters (such as press releases and website content). Maybe the committee/s that handle liturgical matters could just make a request to the CBCP web team to add any such liturgical documents/directives to the website? Hindi naman siguro iyon makakaabala sa iba pang mga gampanin ng CBCP, basta ba ready to post na yung mga directives for public consumption

[Sir Michael]

Meron nga po...
Episcopal Commission on Liturgy under the Department of Doctrine and Religious Affairs ng CBCP.

Tama, tama, titopao. I wonder nga kung bakit hindi sila makapag post ng directives sa website

[Alexander]

Originally Posted by casper89

On our recent seminar where we tackled the mass siyempre andudun yung mga songs sa mass nasabi nung nagpaseminar na liturgist sa amin, mali daw ang pagkanta ng Kordero na mabilis ang tempo nagbigay pa nga siya ng concrete examples na yung kay Arboleda and yung kay Hondiveros kasi it is innapropriate na lively yung pagkanta ng Kordero where as the message is asking for forgiveness, how is that po?

Mukhang kilala ko ang nagsabi nito..... sobrang react talaga ang mga makakarinig nito....

Gaya ng dating post ko dito...

Originally Posted by Alexander

Maganda ang musika na ito ni Fr Honti, but later na critizise kasi daw dapat psalmodic ang dating or parang litany... mabilis kasi ito, nauso nung boom ng charismatic movements.

Anyway, I meant pala "Litany" there not "psalmodic" ()... ang sabi sa lecture na yan, ang manner ng pag-awit ng Kordero.... pero I have yet to see the exact text na nagsasabi na ganito nga dapat ang manner ng pag-awit nito....

Meron na akong mga ilang nakitang areglo ng Lamb of God na psalmodic ang style at hindi limited sa three lines...

examples are the Lamb of God in "Mass of Remembrance"

(Lamb of God
(Prince of Peace ..... You take away the sins of the world) Have Mercy on us.
(Bread of Life
Lamb of God ..... You take away the sins of the world. Grant us peace.

and the Mass of Creation na meron pang mga additional na mga antiphon na nakasulat...

[titopao]

@Alex: Naalala ko lang tuloy. May na-experience pa nga akong misa kung saan hindi rin kinanta (o sinagot) ng mga nagsipagsimba ang "Kordero". Bagkus ay choir lang ang kumanta ng "Kordero", lumuhod ang mga tao habang kinakanta ito, tapos ay dumiretso sa communion ang misa, hindi na huminto ang pari para sabihin ang "This is the Lamb of God..." at di na rin nakasagot doon ang mga tao.

And of all places, nangyari ito sa isang arch-/diocesan cathedral, on a regular Sunday mass

[Sir Michael]

Padagdag lang kuya Alex...

I recently learned this version of the Agnus Dei. I really think it is brilliant
From Matt Maher's Mass of St. Timothy:

http://www.spiritandsong.com/compositions/65160

It is in litany style, as all versions of the Agnus Dei should be, but other invocations are used. GIRM states that because it accompanies the Fraction, it can be repeated as many times until the act is done. Sing to the Lord (again ) states that other "Christological invocations" can be used, but the last phrase should always be "dona nobis pacem" or "grant us peace."

[Alexander]

Taking the statement from GIRM re: Fraction Rite. Isa sa malaking pagkakamali ng mga Koro/ Cantor or Commentator ay ito...
They tend to sing or recite the Agnus Dei before the priest even gets to altar to break the bread. (emphasis below is mine).

The priest breaks the Bread and puts a piece of the host into the chalice to signify the unity of the Body and Blood of the Lord in the work of salvation, namely, of the living and glorious Body of Jesus Christ. The supplication Agnus Dei, is, as a rule, sung by the choir or cantor with the congregation responding; or it is, at least, recited aloud. This invocation accompanies the fraction and, for this reason, may be repeated as many times as necessary until the rite has reached its conclusion, the last time ending with the words dona nobis pacem (grant us peace).

- GIRM#38


Other notes on Agnus Dei from GIRM

366. It is not permitted to substitute other chants for those found in the Order of Mass, such as at the Agnus Dei.