Liturgical Song Discussion Section dedicated to the discussion of the proper use of what we consider as "liturgical songs"
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marlo_27
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Come Share the Lord, Posted 12.07.23 #1
Hello po sa inyo mga Bukaspalad onliners sir titopao and sir alexander, yung coordinator po namin sa sacred music ministry is asking for a question, if this song can be sung in our Roman Mass context? kasi po parang sa ibang domination ang song po galing. Mag-ask lang po kami, kasi isa po sa pinagbawal sa pagkanta po daw sabi ni "Sister o ng madre po, sa music workshop nila, pinagbabawal po raw ang pagkanta ng song na galing sa ibang religious denomination like protestants, gaya po sa mga songs nila Don Moen po. Nakuha ko po tong sheet dito po sa isang thread po" Come Share the Lord" dito po sa messageboard with permission kay kuya. Maganda po sya kantahin sa communion, and we planned it to sing next sunday. Ganito po ang lyrics niya: C:


COME, SHARE THE LORD

1. We gather here,
In Jesus name
His love is burning
In our hearts like living flame.
For thru the loving Son
The Father makes us one.
Come take the bread,
Come drink the wine,
Come share the Lord.

No one is a stranger here,
Everyone belongs.
Finding our forgiveness here,
We in turn forgive our wrongs.

2. He joins us here,
he breaks the bread,
the Lord who pours the cup
is risen from the dead.
The one we love the most,
Is now our gracious Host.
Come take the bread,
Come drink the wine,
Come share the Lord.

We are now a family
Of which the Lord is head.
Tho unseen He meets us here
In the breaking of the bread.

3. We’ll gather soon,
Where angels sing.
We’ll see the glory of our Lord
And coming King.
Now we anticipate
The feast for which we wait.
Come take the bread,
Come drink the wine,
Come share the Lord….
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Alexander
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Re: COME SHARE THE LORD song, Posted 12.07.24 #2
I remember there was a guideline in the Diocese of Kalookan about giving preference to songs created by Catholic composers as they would have the guidelines and foundations of the faith. The problem with compositions that originated from the non-Catholic denomination is there "might" be some "theological" or "church teachings" conflict within the song. So best to ask is your local Church authority such as your Bishop or delegated competent authority.

The good thing with this is it encourages the Catholic faithful to create songs for the Church.

In the case of "Charismatic" congregations, they do sing "non-Catholic" songs but I guess they are used outside the Liturgy. That is the general sense but I maybe wrong.

I haven't read all of the articles here but you may try reading this link - http://www.firstthings.com/onthesqua...otestant-hymns

I haven't read any specific lines in the MS and SC about this.... maybe titopao or other BPOnliners would have some input as well.




===================================


I might move this to the "Choir and the Church" discussion and rename it to "Singing 'Non-Catholic' songs in Liturgy" ... kung mayroon kayong nakitang similar thread, I'd appreciate your help and heads up please....
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Do not assume that I know everything because I am a nobody - Alexander
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titopao
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Re: COME SHARE THE LORD song, Posted 12.07.24 #3
Um...lilinawin ko lang para, well, para malinaw sa lahat Hindi ako expert sa theology so I can't really make a competent judgment on the lyrics of the song hehehe. But be that as it may, some thoughts I'd like to share:

* The end-all and be-all of Catholic theology---at least, for laymen who want to know more about their Catholic faith---is the Catechism. I'll say more about the Catechism (including some points that everyone should know), but at this point (or at this paragraph hehehe) I'd like to say that, basically, if a song's lyrics seem to contradict anything that you know is in the Catechism, then at the very least you try to consult a priest and have that priest check the lyrics' doctrinal content (kung hindi man tanungin ang competent authority ng inyong parish or diocese).

I'll give you really dumb and extreme examples to drive the point home: kung may kantang sinasabi na the Virgin Mary is on the same level as (or---ack!---even higher than) the Holy Trinity; Jesus Christ didn't establish the Church (re: Peter the rock episode in the bible) and the allusion to Peter was just a figure of speech; John the Baptist, not Jesus Christ, is the Messiah. Of course, every Catholic knows (or should know) that these are inconsistent with the magisterium of the Church, so any song with lyrics of those nature are obviously disallowed, to the point that if you do know that a song has questionable doctrinal content, then you don't even need to ask if there are any regulations (old or new) as to whether you can even sing them in the liturgy

Now, back to the Catechism. The Catechism is, on record, the document that has the definitive version of what the Church teaches to Catholics. If you really have the time (with emphasis on time), it's worth reading the Catechism from cover to cover; as in, kung tamad-tamad kayong maghagilap ng mga bagay-bagay tungkol sa doktrina, then you should read the Catechism next to the Bible. Kung nahahabaan naman kayo sa Catechism---meron lang naman siyang 800-900 pages sa book version nito, depende sa nagprint nito ---then you can just buy yourself the Compendium of the Catechism, which is at a more reasonable 200-something pages lang. BUT (and this is what I was meaning to say)...don't think that the Catechism is "the" final word on Catholic doctrine. The Catechism is merely a summary of the whole of Catholic teaching but, as Fr. JBoy Gonzales himself told me (in a personal conversation), Catholic teaching is worth more than the number of pages of the Catechism. Marami pang ibang sources na pinanggagalingan ng Catholic teaching, and it's not enough that you rely on the Catechism alone (that is, kung talagang gusto n'yong pangatawanan na pag-aralan ang Catholic theology and teaching). Kumbaga, the Catechism is just a guidepost (but a really large guidepost at that), and if you really want to learn more, then there are much, much more places to learn about Catholic teaching. At the very least, the Catechism gives you a head start.

So how do we go about with using the Catechism for checking if your lyrics are consistent with Catholic teaching? If it were me: read the Catechism. Read the lyrics. Does any part, even one sentence of the lyrics, seem to be inconsistent with Catholic thought? Do more research. Still not satisfied with what you've seen so far? Go ask a priest (plus points if that priest belongs to the faculty of a seminary or school of theology ). Still not satisfied? Then bring the matter to your parish or diocese and let them decide about it (at least, by then, you already did your homework na )

* Tama si Alex regarding charismatic songs. The gatherings or activities of charismatic groups are per se not covered by liturgical norms because, yes, those activities are not part of the liturgy. A quick check is this: kung ang isang religious activity ay hindi kasama sa mga liturgical books ng simbahan (e.g. wala sa missal, sacramentary, marriage rite, funeral rite etc.), then it's not a liturgical activity. So, really, wa epek 'yung mga liturgical guidelines sa mga ganung sitwasyon. Hence, no need to ask if a song is liturgical or not if, for example, you're going to use it in your org's prayer service or in your parish's "Living Rosary" (because the rosary is, per se, not a liturgical activity; it is a devotional prayer).

Now, as to whether those songs are consistent with Catholic theology....

* Sinabi ko na ito somewhere, but it's worth mentioning. Maraming confusion as to what the GIRM and MS are for. Basically...

...if you're asking about the quality or the suitability of a song (content and music) for the liturgy, including mass, then you should read Musicam Sacram. Take note that MS contains guidelines not just for the mass, but for the Divine Office (Liturgy of the Hours) as well. So don't make the mistake of assuming (like many others do) that the Musicam Sacram is a set of guidelines "for mass songs". It's not just "for mass songs" but "for mass songs and songs for use in other liturgies".

...if you're asking about how you're supposed to sing a particular song in the mass (e.g. can repetitions of the Kyrie be made? do you sing Alleluia on Lent and Advent?), then you should read the General Instruction on the Roman Missal.

Of course, both guidelines contain other items not related to songs (e.g. MS has general guidelines for choirs and singers; GIRM has guildelines for, say, how altar servers are to conduct themselves in the altar), but the distinctions I emphasized above are regarding how you should use each document when you need to consult them regarding songs

Unfortunately...it seems that there is very little, if any, content that refers to song lyrics. Kahit sa Redemptionis Sacramentum or sa Sacrosanctum Concilium, parang hindi ito masyadong nabigyang-diin. My guess is that the logic behind this is because those documents were aimed at certain aspects of the liturgy, and in particular, more on the conduct of rites and ceremonies. But if it's a question of Catholic theology or Catholic teaching, then those documents (probably) are not the best place to look for answers and you probably need to look elsewhere like any regulations or Church laws regarding Catholic doctrine na. I could probably even argue that it's probably also a matter of Canon Law (see Canon 1369), but this is most likely an extreme case na (and, of course, I'm not a Canon Lawyer either, so I could be wrong in that respect )

(See? That's why I said earlier, hindi sa Catechism ang final word sa Catholic teaching. Obviously, there is a huuuuuge amount of material that we all need to read ) )

* I do agree with the stand taken by the blogger in the link Alex posted. Wala namang song na bininyagang Katoliko o Protestante o Born-again o maski Muslim o Hudyo in the first place..we only have Catholic/Protestant/Born-again/Muslim/Jewish songwriters, not songs So I think medyo unfair na sabihing komo hindi Katoliko ang gumawa ng kanta, bawal nang kantahin sa misa. In that respect, you are judging the songwriter, not the song. Ni hindi mo pa nga nababasa 'yung lyrics ng kanta, sinasabi mo na kaagad na hindi siya bagay sa Catholic liturgy? If the song doesn't seem to contradict Catholic teaching naman, then perhaps it's safe that lyrics-wise the song may be allowed in the liturgy (better if your local liturgical authorities have given their approval).

Now, as to whether the music is appropriate for Catholic liturgy...

* And finally...about the song itself. Sorry, but I'm not a big fan of Don Moen and of Hillsong Regardless of whether any of their songs are not in contradiction with Catholic teaching, hindi ko tinatangkilik (at lalong hindi ko tinutugtog o pinapakanta) ang mga ganung kanta sa misa. Sa opinyon ko rin, hindi siya bagay kantahin sa misa maski na i-rearrange mo pa siya nang hindi pop ang datin.

So perhaps I'm the wrong person to ask because my answer will be...no, no, and a big, big NO...because I avoid Don Moen and Hillsong like the plague
We have little to no culture of healthy polemics in the country, as any attempt to consider fault is taken as a personal attack. Rare are those that are able to deal with it properly. --- Alex Tioseco (1981-2009), critic

DISSENT IS LIBERATION; NO DEMOCRACY WITHOUT DISSENT
CRITICISM IS DISCOURSE, DIALECTIC AND EDUCATION
Last edited by titopao; 12.07.24 at 11:05 AM..
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marlo_27
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Re: COME SHARE THE LORD song, Posted 12.07.24 #4
*Maraming salamat po sa inyo sir alexander and titopao, but this song is not sung by Don Moen or either composed by him, based on I have read, it is from the dedication in the evangelical congregation, if I am right. I asked tristan ramirez who is a bp messageboard member, and he replied that they usually sing this song in the communion. And I am going to consult din our priest if it is conducive to sing or contradicting based on the catholic theology. We really appreciate your ideas and suggestion about this thread and it is a great help unto us here, again thank you so much sa inyo po. C:

Last edited by marlo_27; 12.07.24 at 09:13 AM.. Reason: q
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