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Alexander
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Salamat sa INPUT kumintang.

Kaya ko naman naitatanong ang mga ito kasi you cant contain who downloads what diba. Malay mo ba kung sa simbahan nga gagamitin ang isang kanta lalo na kung itoy hindi pang simbahan. Kadalasan kung ito'y nilikha para sa MADZ... just thinking aloud.

Isa pang concern is, maraming publishing company's ang affiliated sa mga religious organisation na nagpo-produce din ng awiting pang simbahan na maaring maging malaking issue sa hinaharap kung itoy pinahihintulutan dito sa ating boards...
I am not who you think I am because I do not pretend to be somebody.
Do not assume that I know everything because I am a nobody - Alexander
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kumintang
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I understand your point Bro Alexander at mahal din ang ink at papel na ginagamit sa pag-publish ng mga song book or hymnal...malulugi nga ang mga publishers ng mga liturgical songs kung wala ng bibili ng mga books nila dahil puwede naman pala maidownload ng libre dito sa BP courtesy of our charitable forum members. Parang kinunsensya tuloy ako ngayon...
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psalm_choir
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Sa akin pong palagay, maging ito ay awiting pang simbahan o hindi. Dapat igalang natin ang pagmamay-ari ng composer sa mga awitin. Dapat itong tuluyang ipagbawal. Kung wala po tayong pambili ng songbook, mag fundraising po tayo o humingi ng tulong sa parokya. Hindi po excuse na wala tayong pambili o walang mabili sa lugar natin.

Kung wala po tayong pambili, wag na lang nating pag-aralan, kasi po kadalasan gusto laman nating ipagmalaki na nakakanta natin ang mga piyesa na mahirap kantahin, nawawala na po ang diwa ng paglilingkod kung "ego" o yabang na ang nasa isip.

Kung ako ang tatanungin, dapat ihinto na ang pag request ng mga pyesa na copyright kasi ito ay labag sa batas. Makuntento tayo kung anong meron tayo at magpasalamat kung mayrong nag donate ng pambili.
GO! PSALM
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titopao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psalm_choir View Post
Sa akin pong palagay, maging ito ay awiting pang simbahan o hindi. Dapat igalang natin ang pagmamay-ari ng composer sa mga awitin. Dapat itong tuluyang ipagbawal. Kung wala po tayong pambili ng songbook, mag fundraising po tayo o humingi ng tulong sa parokya. Hindi po excuse na wala tayong pambili o walang mabili sa lugar natin.

Kung wala po tayong pambili, wag na lang nating pag-aralan, kasi po kadalasan gusto laman nating ipagmalaki na nakakanta natin ang mga piyesa na mahirap kantahin, nawawala na po ang diwa ng paglilingkod kung "ego" o yabang na ang nasa isip.

Kung ako ang tatanungin, dapat ihinto na ang pag request ng mga pyesa na copyright kasi ito ay labag sa batas. Makuntento tayo kung anong meron tayo at magpasalamat kung mayrong nag donate ng pambili.
With this line of thinking, I doubt if, for example, the JMM will be able to reach out to the provinces and promote their music.

First, as I've pointed out earlier, very limited lang ang distribution channels ng JMM (and, for that matter, most local publishers of church music). It is a fact that some of the people who have requested for sheet music on this boards are from the provinces and, often, from places that are too far away from what would have been the town center or the province. Business-wise, it is too costly for the JMM to mass-produce many songbooks in places where the market for such music books is undetermined. Come to think of it, would you have the logistics to be able to distribute these books in 1,000+ parishes all over the nation?

The irony of this, however, is that if we become too legalistic and become too engrossed in the letter of the law (as what you've posted), then it will stifle many music ministries and will limit the available number of songs that choirs in the country can sing. Otherwise, what's the point of publishing all those CDs and songbooks if no one will be able to at least know that they exist? Hindi mo rin mapupwersa ang ibang musicians sa inyong lugar na mag-compose ng maraming pyesa because composing music takes time, it is too naive an assumption to make.

Ako, for one, I'm of the opinion that the spirit of the IP Code intends that no one will make a profit out of copyrighted material and (more importantly) no one will be able to claim as his own what is not his work. What entails respect for the composer? Attribution...the act of acknowledging the creator of a work. Compensation for a composer's work, I look at this as a by-product of this respect...but I do not consider it as the end-all and be-all of "respecting" a composer. This is the same philosophy that makes Wikipedia a successful (anti-copyright) project: it doesn't matter if no one gets paid for his/her work, as long as credit is given where it is due. Ang mahalaga ay hindi mo inaangkin yung hindi mo naman gawa. Yun ang pangunahing pinag-iingatan ng batas.

Before I forget, let me re-emphasize that, per the IP Code, fair use is permitted in occasions when, in this regard, a copyrighted material is used in church service. In my choir's case, I photocopy sheet music so that my choir members can use it. However, to prevent abuse, what we do is to ask the choir members to hand over the photocopies after mass (and practice...because, naturally, you will have to practice the songs before the mass---covered pa rin ito ng fair use because we use it for instructional purposes). My choir does not distribute pieces outside our own but NOT because of copyright laws...it's because some of the pieces are my own arrangement, and at this time I'm not inclined to distribute these pieces outside my own choir (competitive advantage ko yun, so to speak )

If and when someone asks me for a photocopy of sheet music that is copyrighted and that I think they can easily buy (say, the JMM song books), I also ask these people to consider buying the real things as well...but also NOT because of copyright laws. What I tell them is that it's more practical to buy something permanent rather than rely on photocopies that would surely become faded in time, and thus should be considered as an investment. Trust me, most of the people I tell this to do buy the songbooks.

With regard to what I think about the requests forum...I do have something in mind, but I'm sure it'll be a controversial proposition to make, paniguradong mag-aalboroto yung ibang mga nag-sign up sa BP boards (I'm still working on it, though). I'll save that for another post.
We have little to no culture of healthy polemics in the country, as any attempt to consider fault is taken as a personal attack. Rare are those that are able to deal with it properly. --- Alex Tioseco (1981-2009), critic

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titopao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander View Post
Salamat po titopao. Napakarami na ring input at nakakapag educate na rin....

Isang tanong pa about sheet music...

What if we re transcribe a copyright music sheet and shared it sa board. Sasabihin sa akin ng nag share... ayan po, wala na pong "copyight notice" yan...

Another situation is if somebody creates a MIDI out of a copyright music sheet... "wala na rin yang copyright notice..."

Is the situation under the axe?

Mga attorneys.... inputs din ha.
My understanding of IP laws is that retranscribing music and creating MIDI files are considered derivative works that do not affect the copyright status of the original copyright holder and creator's status. Me, when I retranscribe a piece of sheet music, I copy everything including the original copyright notice (if available). If not, I make every effort to at least include the names of the composers, lyricists and arrangers. And also, as I've mentioned earlier, I limit my own works for my own choir's consumption, too. (And, before anyone puts another meaning on that last statement, again, I do it not because of the IP Code---in principle, letter and spirit, I disagree with that law as anti-consumer---but because of personal reasons.)

This is what I try to do when I publish my MIDI arrangements. I publicly acknowledge that the song was composed by this person, and that the original MIDI file came from that person, and that I only added this and that. Hindi ko inaangking yung alam kong hindi ako ang gumawa, nag-input lang ako ng ilang mga bagay-bagay.
We have little to no culture of healthy polemics in the country, as any attempt to consider fault is taken as a personal attack. Rare are those that are able to deal with it properly. --- Alex Tioseco (1981-2009), critic

DISSENT IS LIBERATION; NO DEMOCRACY WITHOUT DISSENT
CRITICISM IS DISCOURSE, DIALECTIC AND EDUCATION
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titopao
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Napag-uusapan rin lang ang mga MIDi files and their copyrights status...there's this group called the Music Relief Association whose aim is to help promote changing the fair use laws in the US. The movement was born out of, in my opinion, a very unjust and ridiculous lawsuit/cease-and-desist letter. You can learn more about this subject from the following website:

Music Relief Association (home page)
We have little to no culture of healthy polemics in the country, as any attempt to consider fault is taken as a personal attack. Rare are those that are able to deal with it properly. --- Alex Tioseco (1981-2009), critic

DISSENT IS LIBERATION; NO DEMOCRACY WITHOUT DISSENT
CRITICISM IS DISCOURSE, DIALECTIC AND EDUCATION
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titopao
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Another interesting read. For all the arrogance of Micro$oft in going after copyrights violators, it looks like they themselves are guilty as well:

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakin...icle_id=107256

He who is not without sin....
We have little to no culture of healthy polemics in the country, as any attempt to consider fault is taken as a personal attack. Rare are those that are able to deal with it properly. --- Alex Tioseco (1981-2009), critic

DISSENT IS LIBERATION; NO DEMOCRACY WITHOUT DISSENT
CRITICISM IS DISCOURSE, DIALECTIC AND EDUCATION
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Alexander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by titopao View Post
My understanding of IP laws is that retranscribing music and creating MIDI files are considered derivative works that do not affect the copyright status of the original copyright holder and creator's status. Me, when I retranscribe a piece of sheet music, I copy everything including the original copyright notice (if available). If not, I make every effort to at least include the names of the composers, lyricists and arrangers.
That being the case, if the copyright notice was not included in the retranscribed music sheet, even if it is a derivative work, was that act a violation of fair use?

In the age of electronic media, isa sa mga tanong is the image copy in various formats(PDF, BMP, JPEG, etc). Most of us, if not all, are affiliated or music ministers in the church. Do we violate the IP law if we share the music sheets here? Most of the requests maybe for church use, but for other music sheets (e.g., MADZ, etc) may be used for competitions, concert that may gain them monetary rewards / funds or remuneration (for the case of choirmasters and Musical D's) who earn from teaching these songs.

My point is, di natin ma filter kung sino ang nagre-request diba? What could be the possible implications?
I am not who you think I am because I do not pretend to be somebody.
Do not assume that I know everything because I am a nobody - Alexander
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titopao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander View Post
That being the case, if the copyright notice was not included in the retranscribed music sheet, even if it is a derivative work, was that act a violation of fair use?

In the age of electronic media, isa sa mga tanong is the image copy in various formats(PDF, BMP, JPEG, etc). Most of us, if not all, are affiliated or music ministers in the church. Do we violate the IP law if we share the music sheets here? Most of the requests maybe for church use, but for other music sheets (e.g., MADZ, etc) may be used for competitions, concert that may gain them monetary rewards / funds or remuneration (for the case of choirmasters and Musical D's) who earn from teaching these songs.

My point is, di natin ma filter kung sino ang nagre-request diba? What could be the possible implications?
My understanding is that the IP laws are supposed to protect the interests of copyrights holder against unfair commercial exploitation...which, I don't think, is not what contests are supposed to be (as far as the participants are concerned, they are engaging in a non-commercial activity).

But if, say, I made a MIDI out of a copyrighted work, and then sell that MIDI for business without paying an appropriate licensing fee to the original copyright holder, then that is what consitutes a violation of fair use. Parang the main concern is, did you do it for commercial purposes (as in, pinagkakataan mo ba?).
We have little to no culture of healthy polemics in the country, as any attempt to consider fault is taken as a personal attack. Rare are those that are able to deal with it properly. --- Alex Tioseco (1981-2009), critic

DISSENT IS LIBERATION; NO DEMOCRACY WITHOUT DISSENT
CRITICISM IS DISCOURSE, DIALECTIC AND EDUCATION
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Alexander
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So if you're using a music sheet, na hindi mo naman binili or nadownload lang, to earn remuneration as I've mentioned earlier (e.g., choir instructors, etc). Will that fall in to the category na pinagkakitaan?
I am not who you think I am because I do not pretend to be somebody.
Do not assume that I know everything because I am a nobody - Alexander
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